Home Forums The Learning Center Color Theory and Mixing Difference between Violet, Magenta, and Purple?

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 87 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #992992
    SamL
    Default

        Are some of them synonyms?

        Is one the subset of another?

        Do any of them overlap?

        Are they mutually exclusive?

        #1224898
        yellow_oxide
        Default

            In actual use they are treated as interchangeable.

            It’s something like this-
            On a color wheel violet is closer to blue and purple is closer to red. On a rainbow, violet is beyond blue on one extreme, just barely visible before you reach ultraviolet (i.e. beyond violet) where our vision ends. Purple and magenta, in a rainbow, don’t exist. There’s no one single wavelength of light for purple. Instead, they’re what our brains invent when light from the two ends of the spectrum, violet and red, are combined. Normally seeing two different wavelengths at once (which we do constantly, because nothing reflects only exactly one wavelength, everything reflects many wavelengths to varying degrees) causes us to average them out with emphasis on whichever wavelength is stronger. If we did that with the two ends though, we’d see yellow every time red and violet was combined because yellow is in the middle. Magenta is just a certain shade of purple that was named after a town in Italy to commemorate a battle near there.

            #1224868
            Mythrill
            Default

                Usually, violet and purple are synonyms, but here is how I define them:

                  [*]Magenta is the primary color that mixes equally well with blues to make purples and yellows to make reds. It is a unique hue on its own, and a primary in CYMK. Originally represented by fuschine, the most lightfast and best representative today, IMHO, is Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122, blue shade).
                  [*]Purple is a violet color in which there’s more blue than magenta. An example of such color is Dioxazine Purple (PV 23).
                  [*]Violet is a violet color in which there’s more red than magenta. An example of such color is Quinacridone Violet (PV 19-beta).
                #1224900
                davidbriggs
                Default

                    In describing coloured lights there’s a reasonably consistent physical convention that uses violet for the relatively bluish red-blues that can be evoked by the short wavelength end of the spectrum alone, and the “line of purples” for the redder colours up to and including pure red, that can only be evoked by mixed wavelengths from both ends of the spectrum. It’s not an obvious colour boundary however and is not applied consistently to paints in this range (all which by the way reflect a mix of red, blue and violet wavelengths).

                    In its original usage for the dye fuchsin, as for paints sold as magenta today, magenta is a hue distinctly more reddish than bluish. It is one of the purples in the sense described above, although in common use purple is now usually restricted to pigments less reddish than magenta. “Digital magenta” (R255 B255) in contrast is a hue equally red and blue, and thus distinctly more bluish than magenta as used for paints.

                    Colour Online (hundreds of links on colour): https://sites.google.com/site/djcbriggs/colour-online
                    The Dimensions of Colour: www.huevaluechroma.com
                    Colour Society of Australia: www.coloursociety.org.au

                    #1224914
                    jorri
                    Default

                        Violet is spectral. It can be made of a single wavelength. Its closer to the blues.

                        Purple and magenta are extra-spectral and only made of mixed wavelengths.

                        Magenta may be considered a purple however it is a distinct (primary) hue and used to refer to the red end, where it’s appearance is often mistakened for ‘pink’, redder than this comes ‘rose’ then ‘crimson’ and quite a way past those is the primary red in the ‘scarlets’. This puts magenta halfway between that primary red and the warmer primary blues (probably a warmer ultramarine) even though it is pretty close to those rose-reds. It differs from pink in that pink is a tint of a red hue.

                        but really, most paints are called violet in that general area. What about ‘mars violet’ which is a red-pinkish earth!

                        #1224863
                        WFMartin
                        Default

                            “Violet”, and “Purple” are the terms most artists apply to the true, scientific, secondary color, “Blue”.

                            For example, get someone with a color densitometer to plot the exact location of Dioxazine Purple on a color wheel. You will see that it plots very near the “Blue spoke” of the color wheel–and MUCH closer to that location than any colors having “Blue-someting-or-other” in their names.:D

                            Well, actually…..here’s a plot that I did of several of my paints, using a color densitometer (I used to do this for a vocation.):

                            Magenta is a primary color, and it represents equal reflectance of Red, and Blue light, while it absorbs Green. (The white light spectrum includes equal reflectance of Red, Green, and Blue light.)

                            But, the naming of colors is just pure semantics. Blue is a secondary color that exhibits specific characteristics, and attributes. It makes no difference whether one prefers to call it, “Blue”, “Purple”, or “Violet”–it will behave as scientific Blue. And, it will continue to behave as such, even should you prefer to call it, “George”, or “Frank”. And, merely calling a color, “Blue” does not automatically mean that it will behave in the manner of Blue. Calling a horse a chicken, does not endow it with the characteristic that allows it to lay eggs.;)

                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                            #1224915
                            jorri
                            Default

                                ”Violet”, and “Purple” are the terms most artists apply to the true, scientific, secondary color, “Blue”.

                                For example, get someone with a color densitometer to plot the exact location of Dioxazine Purple on a color wheel. You will see that it plots very near the “Blue spoke” of the color wheel–and MUCH closer to that location than any colors having “Blue-someting-or-other” in their names.:D

                                Well, actually…..here’s a plot that I did of several of my paints, using a color densitometer (I used to do this for a vocation.):

                                [IMG]http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/10-May-2015/13079-LTF_Circle_W_Colors_Callouts.jpg[/IMG]

                                Magenta is a primary color, and it represents equal reflectance of Red, and Blue light, while it absorbs Green. (The white light spectrum includes equal reflectance of Red, Green, and Blue light.)

                                But, the naming of colors is just pure semantics. Blue is a secondary color that exhibits specific characteristics, and attributes. It makes no difference whether one prefers to call it, “Blue”, “Purple”, or “Violet”–it will behave as scientific Blue. And, it will continue to behave as such, even should you prefer to call it, “George”, or “Frank”. And, merely calling a color, “Blue” does not automatically mean that it will behave in the manner of Blue. Calling a horse a chicken, does not endow it with the characteristic that allows it to lay eggs.;)

                                I was under the impression that true primary blue hue is actually a mix between ultramarine blue and violet and that some bluer shades of the ultramarine violet are closer. And true primary magenta is cobalt violet light not those named ‘magenta’. Red was perhaps pyrrole orange too when i used rgb values.

                                #1224929
                                SamL
                                Default

                                    get someone with a color densitometer to plot the exact location of Dioxazine Purple on a color wheel. You will see that it plots very near the “Blue spoke” of the color wheel…..here’s a plot that I did of several of my paints,
                                    [IMG]http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/10-May-2015/13079-LTF_Circle_W_Colors_Callouts.jpg[/IMG]

                                    Something doesn’t look right with this plot.

                                    Ultramarine Blue is a reddish blue. It should be to the right of the “Neutral Blue Spoke”. (If you are standing at where this spoke meets the rim, and facing the center.)

                                    But, this plot put Ultramarine Blue to the left of the “Neutral Blue Spoke”, as a cyanish blue.

                                    Is the position off by 30°?

                                    #1224876
                                    Anonymous

                                        Something doesn’t look right with this plot.

                                        Ultramarine Blue is a reddish blue. It should be to the right of the “Neutral Blue Spoke”. (If you are standing at where this spoke meets the rim, and facing the center.)

                                        But, this plot put Ultramarine Blue to the left of the “Neutral Blue Spoke”, as a cyanish blue.

                                        Is the position off by 30°?

                                        ultramarine blue is a blue with a red bias, it should be placed to the red side of a true middle blue. but then note the problem that ultramarine blue and yellow will mix to a green, which would be impossible from that point on a complementary mixing chart.
                                        what has happened in the construction of this particular chart is what Bill clearly explained, a true blue has been totally revamped, recolored, and redefined from the blue as we have always known it to be, to a newer, very purple color. If blue is now really a purple, like a dioxazine violet, we need to get all companies in the world, including commercial house paint, auto, siding, clothing, food, etc. to start relabeling all of their products, not only their paint colors.

                                        #1224901
                                        davidbriggs
                                        Default

                                            Presumably in the fine print of the system Bill uses “Blue” is defined by some accepted metric such as CIE XYZ. “Scientific blue” is not a scientific way of specifying colour!

                                            Colour Online (hundreds of links on colour): https://sites.google.com/site/djcbriggs/colour-online
                                            The Dimensions of Colour: www.huevaluechroma.com
                                            Colour Society of Australia: www.coloursociety.org.au

                                            #1224877
                                            Anonymous

                                                Here are a few scientific blues,

                                                1-Scientific natural standards
                                                Emission spectrum of Cu2+
                                                and
                                                Electronic spectrum of aqua-ions Cu(H 2O)2+ 6
                                                2- wavelength of 450 to 490 nm
                                                3- sRGB (r,g,b) (0,0,2555)

                                                But they are not violet, which is the mixing complement of yellow.

                                                Scientific violet is 380 to 450 nm in wavelength.

                                                #1224869
                                                Mythrill
                                                Default

                                                    I was under the impression that true primary blue hue is actually a mix between ultramarine blue and violet and that some bluer shades of the ultramarine violet are closer. And true primary magenta is cobalt violet light not those named ‘magenta’. Red was perhaps pyrrole orange too when i used rgb values.

                                                    Jorri, I don’t think Cobalt Violet Light (PV 14 or PV 47) is real magenta. It’s just very close. But do this experiment: mix the real deal with a lemon or middle yellow. If you get even a low-chroma red, it’s a low-chroma magenta. If you get an ochre hue, it’s violet (spectral violet).

                                                    #1224916
                                                    jorri
                                                    Default

                                                        Jorri, I don’t think Cobalt Violet Light (PV 14 or PV 47) is real magenta. It’s just very close. But do this experiment: mix the real deal with a lemon or middle yellow. If you get even a low-chroma red, it’s a low-chroma magenta. If you get an ochre hue, it’s violet (spectral violet).

                                                        I’m just looking at rgb, and some possibly innacurate plots.
                                                        If you get ochre, you added more yellow, if you got red you added more magenta.
                                                        And if the colour was closer to red or higher chroma in the first place its quite likely to get a brighter red.
                                                        I think quinacridone magennta is used in printers, but is not at hue 330, where cmyk puts it…i think printers use the most convenient pigments and compensate slightly? its still the best magenta to paint with.

                                                        hand print suggests ultramarine violet blue shade which i’ve never tried is the primary blue in terms of spectrum. i’ve only used red shade but images do look pretty blue to me. Something does seem off about where the numbers put things, but they put them there :confused: .(so luckily i have eyes to use instead).

                                                        #1224891
                                                        Gigalot
                                                        Default

                                                            Jorri, I don’t think Cobalt Violet Light (PV 14 or PV 47) is real magenta. It’s just very close. But do this experiment: mix the real deal with a lemon or middle yellow. If you get even a low-chroma red, it’s a low-chroma magenta. If you get an ochre hue, it’s violet (spectral violet).

                                                            I tried to mix both, PV14 and PR122 with Cadmium Yellow HUE:

                                                            #1224870
                                                            Mythrill
                                                            Default

                                                                I tried to mix both, PV14 and PR122 with Cadmium Yellow HUE:

                                                                Amazing! So PV14 is magenta, after all. Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122) naturally gives better reds, but the ones that PV14 gives are worth exploring.

                                                              Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 87 total)
                                                              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.