Home › Forums › The Learning Center › Color Theory and Mixing › Burnt Sienna & Yellow Ochre, can they be made with limited palette?
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September 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm #990132
Hello!
I am an oil painter trying my hand at acrylics. A limited palette of the following colours was recommended to me : napthol red medium, cad yellow med, pthalo blue red shade, titanium white and quinacridone red.I would like to make my own colours with this and wonder if I can make burnt sienna and yellow ochre with these? What would the ratios be of the various colours needed to do this. Many thanks in advance.
September 17, 2012 at 4:32 pm #1171693Hello!
I am an oil painter trying my hand at acrylics. A limited palette of the following colours was recommended to me : napthol red medium, cad yellow med, pthalo blue red shade, titanium white and quinacridone red.I would like to make my own colours with this and wonder if I can make burnt sienna and yellow ochre with these? What would the ratios be of the various colours needed to do this. Many thanks in advance.
I have very little experience with acrylics, but color is color, and it behaves the same, no matter what the particular medium.
First, I would say that yes, given these colors in oil paint, I could come up with rather good versions of both Burnt Sienna, and Yellow Ochre.
For the Burnt Sienna, I would probably begin with Cad Red Medium, to which I would add some Cad Yellow Medium. To that mix, I would then add whatever amount of Thalo Blue might be required to achieve the “brown-ness” of the Burnt Sienna.
For the Yellow Ochre, I would begin with the Cad Yellow Medium, and to that add a slight touch of Cad Red Medium, following with an equally small “touch” of Thalo Blue.
Precise ratios cannot be recommended because each brand is different in their colors, and Thalo Blue, having such a high tinting strength, could not be effectively measured in terms of accurate volumes, anyway.
I’d begin mixing, and go by sight comparison. I’m assuming you have a Burnt Sienna and a Yellow Ochre with which to compare.
If I didn’t have a tube of each color I proposed to match, I could not do it. “Recipes” (as in “ratios”) just don’t usually work. Plus the simple fact that the color, “Yellow Ochre” is quite differently represented in just about every brand. No two brands have the “same” Yellow Ochre, in terms of its actual appearance. So, it depends upon what Yellow Ochre you are trying to match, regarding what colors you’d use to create “Yellow Ochre”.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comSeptember 17, 2012 at 9:05 pm #1171717Thank you very much! Hoping to get to this on the weekend.
September 18, 2012 at 12:05 am #1171711Good exercise in mixing. I will probably try this myself when I am home.
Cad yellow and cad red. are among the most expensive pigments while Sienna and Ochre are the some of the least expensive. I won’t be doing this too often.
Its not "Yellow Ogre", it's "Yellow O C H R E".
"I am not evil. I only paint that way".September 18, 2012 at 3:32 am #1171698Turning the question on it’s head, add Ivory Black and white to your Burnt Sienna & Yellow Ochre and you have one of the most versatile limited palettes, think of black as your blue.
Dave
“What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
— Allen Ginsberg
Are you ready for a Journey?
PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.September 18, 2012 at 9:36 am #1171701WF and Dave’s answers are great.
Anders Zorn’s palette was black, white, yellow, and red. A lot of white and a bit of black can make a bluish tint that can make a great sky.
The black, red and yellow can make your siennas and ochres, although Anders’ yellow probably was an ochre.[FONT=Fixedsys]
September 18, 2012 at 9:46 pm #1171718Wow! Lots of food for thought and palette experimentation. Thanks a bunch everyone.
September 19, 2012 at 11:59 am #1171692My approach would be:
-to mix a Burnt Sienna color: mix up an orangy-red (scarlet) color and darken by adding the complement in small increments (Phthalo Blue)
-to mix a Yellow Ochre color: yellow + a touch of a middle brown (your previous mix might work well enough)
You`ll have to experiment to get the correct ratios…using your eyes to judge what small adjustment might be necessary to get closer to the target color.
October 28, 2014 at 4:35 pm #1171712Is it possible to derive a Yellow Ochre and a Burnt Sienna from a mixture of any of the following, Cad yellow pale, Lemon Yellow, Cad red, Permanent Rose, French Ultramarine, Cerulean Blue?
Many thanks.
October 28, 2014 at 10:37 pm #1171694One fact to keep in mind is that a “Yellow Ochre”, or a “Burnt Sienna” that is mixed from other colors is very likely to behave differently in mixes, or when white is mixed with it, than a Yellow Ochre, or a Burnt Sienna that is a tubed color. As close as they may appear to be in masstone (in a pile) on the palette, they are likely to create entirely different hues when mixed with white.
It has to do with overtones. An overtone is a color that is formed (usually a slightly different hue) when white is mixed with a given color. In short, mixed colors don’t display the same hues as tubed colors, when mixed with white.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comOctober 28, 2014 at 10:41 pm #1171695Is it possible to derive a Yellow Ochre and a Burnt Sienna from a mixture of any of the following, Cad yellow pale, Lemon Yellow, Cad red, Permanent Rose, French Ultramarine, Cerulean Blue?
Many thanks.
Yes, I think so. At least I believe I could mix them, given those “ingredient colors”. The addition of a tubed Black could also be very important to the ease of mixing.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comOctober 29, 2014 at 6:15 am #1171704No. No way to mix Burnt sienna and even Yellow ochre from your palette colours. Those pigments has unique saturated gradations and glazing properties you can’t match with cadmium/naphthol. You will get dull and chalky result without any clear fire of real burnt sienna pigment. Transparent Red iron oxide and Transparent yellow oxide are more or less close but not equal. But I am not an acrylic painter. Said to be acrylic dulls transparent oxides due to limited refractive index of acrylic binder..
You can just mix a COLOR you want to mix using your limited palette.
October 29, 2014 at 8:21 am #1171713One fact to keep in mind is that a “Yellow Ochre”, or a “Burnt Sienna” that is mixed from other colors is very likely to behave differently in mixes, or when white is mixed with it, than a Yellow Ochre, or a Burnt Sienna that is a tubed color. As close as they may appear to be in masstone (in a pile) on the palette, they are likely to create entirely different hues when mixed with white.
It has to do with [B]overtones. An overtone is a color that is formed (usually a slightly different hue) when white is mixed with a given color. In short, mixed colors don’t display the same hues as tubed colors, when mixed with white.[/B]
Very interesting. Many thanks.
October 29, 2014 at 8:25 am #1171714Yes, I think so. At least I believe I could mix them, given those “ingredient colors”. The addition of a tubed Black could also be very important to the ease of mixing.
With the addition of a tubed Black, how would one go about it, I wonder?
Obtaining even an approximation to a Yellow Ochre and a Burnt Sienna, using any of the following. Cad Yellow Pale, Lemon Yellow, Cad Red, Permanent Rose, French Ultramarine, Cerulean Blue?
Many thanks for your help, WF Martin!
October 29, 2014 at 8:29 am #1171715No. No way to mix Burnt sienna and even Yellow ochre from your palette colours. Those pigments has unique saturated gradations and glazing properties you can’t match with cadmium/naphthol. You will get dull and chalky result without any clear fire of real burnt sienna pigment. Transparent Red iron oxide and Transparent yellow oxide are more or less close but not equal. But I am not an acrylic painter. Said to be acrylic dulls transparent oxides due to limited refractive index of acrylic binder..
You can just mix a COLOR you want to mix using your limited palette.
Using Oil.
Do you think then, that it would be easier to obtain a Transparent Red iron oxide and a Transparent yellow oxide, than A Yellow Ochre and Burnt Sienna, from any of, Cad Yellow Pale, Lemon Yellow, Cad Red, Permanent Rose, French Ultramarine, Cerulean Blue, (and a tubed Black)?
Many thanks, Gigalot.
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