Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone Looking for a big, soft, waxy pencil that DOESN’T bleed when I paint over it

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  • #482194
    SteveBerry
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        I’ve recently been using a some Staedler “non-photo blue” pencils for a lot of sketching on 90 lb watercolor paper, and I love it. It’s textural like charcoal, but doesn’t smudge. They grab the paper nicely and can lay down a varied line.

        I’m interested in a black version that does the same thing, but haven’t found one yet. Something big and expressive would be nice. No technical pencils, nothing that smudges too much. That’s why I thought something waxy might be good. Probably also means nothing too erasable. That’s ok with me too– I like the decisive experience of laying down a line with a pen anyways.

        The goal is to lay down an expressive varied line like I would with a pen, and then do my washes and such on top. So the line needs to stick pretty good. Thoughts?

        #928571

        Hi Steve. I like to use Faber Castell Polychromo coloured pencils with watercolour. They lay down smooth and don’t go anywhere with watercolour over them. They have some lovely darks available. These are still just coloured pencils, though, and they might not be soft enough for what you are looking for. They aren’t scratchy or anything, but still.

        My other idea was Caran d’Ache Neo Colour I crayons. I have enjoyed using these a lot, under and over watercolour. They might give more of a resist look than you are looking for, like where the paint beads on the marks. But they are richly pigmented and can be sharpened or not, to your desired width.

        I hope you find something that works!

        :) Noelle

        #928573
        SteveBerry
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            Thanks for these recommendations Noelle.

            I looked at the Caran d’Ache Neo Colour. They look almost like a crayon-format wax pastel? That might be a bit too much.

            I also took a look at the Faber Castell Polychromo on Amazon. I now see that the second set of non-photo blue pencils I got are Primsacolor Premiere pencils. Do you have any experience between the two brands and have they both work with watercolor and watercolor paper?

            #928569
            artsy_lissa
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                Steve, being that you’d like something big and expressive have you considered the newer Cretacolor Mega pencil. It’s non soluble and very large diagmeter: https://www.dickblick.com/products/cretacolor-mega-colored-pencils/

                Another option might be Derwent’s drawing pencil Ivory Black (non-soluble). It comes in a round barrel pencil that’s slightly larger diameter: https://www.dickblick.com/products/derwent-drawing-pencils/

                I do agree with Noelle that Neocolor I from Caran d’Ache is an option. It is waxy but is a bit firm and not so crumbly like the Neocolor II can be. JMHO but it might be worth picking up a single color open stock for a try-out: https://www.dickblick.com/products/caran-dache-neocolor-i-wax-pastels/

                A last idea for now might be a black China marking pencil. I recently used one and found it to slide well and quickly for bold marks, as a kind of line and wash. I can’t recall what brand it was that I used.

                Good luck with your decisions :-)

                Colour is my day-long obsession, joy and torment. ~ Claude Monet[/SIZE]
                [/SIZE]

                #928572

                Yeah, they call the Neo Colours “wax pastels” – they’re crayons. :) They are very nice crayons – highly pigmented, soft and blendable. I find them smoother than the oil pastels that I have tried and they are much firmer. I sharpen mine with a hand-held pencil sharpener (when the blade has gotten a little too dull for pencils) and they come to a nice point. They are available open stock, if you decide to try one. Just watch out that you get a I and not a II, since the IIs are watersoluble.

                I replaced a lot of my Prismas with Polychromos. After Prismas started being made in Mexico, I had terrible luck with them. I found a ton of off-center cores and I broke them all the time. I definitely have a heavy hand and they couldn’t take it anymore. I started experimenting with various brands and the Polychromos became my go tos. I think the Polychromos are very similar to the Prismas, in handling. They are maybe a tick less soft, but they go down smooth and easily. I also have some Caran d’Ache Luminance pencils, which are very similar to Prismas. They are pricey, though, because the whole line is lightfast, even the pinks. I have also used Derwent Coloursofts under and over watercolour and they work, too. They are softer and drier than Prismas, in my experience. They are a little more pastel-like, but still definitely a coloured pencil and not really dusty. They stay put under watercolour, too. Coloured pencils with watercolour is one of my favorite sketching techniques, so I have tried a bunch :) Oh yes! The Blick brand works fine with watercolours, too, but I find them just a tiny bit drier than Prismas and the Polys. Of all of the ones I have mentioned, I have used the Polys most on watercolour paper and they worked great, even on the bumps of CP, though I would guess that most of them would be fine.

                I hope that helps a little.

                :) Noelle

                #928570
                indraneel
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                    It’s called cretacolor nero. Also comes in soft medium hard sticks and leads. They also have oil pencils, sticks and 2mm and 5.6mm leads in 2 shades of sanguine and white. The koh-i-noor are the same thing because it’s the same company. They also have non oil (dry) charcoal soft medium hard, 2 shades of sanguine and white…. so make sure you are ordering for the right stuff. I found them all excellent (except the 2mm leads which I don’t have).

                    The oil can be layered over dry, but not the other way around (I tried only on newsprint).

                    Nero comes in 5 shades, I think (extra soft to extra hard) Here’s a review https://www.parkablogs.com/picture/review-cretacolor-nero-oil-based-charcoal-pencils

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