WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Pastels > Soft Pastel Learning Center
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Kathryn Wilson's Avatar
Kathryn Wilson Kathryn Wilson is offline
A WC! Legend
Raleigh, NC
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,464
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

hmmmmmmmmmmm .... I think I was born a century too late ... those nude figures look like me! short legs, pear shaped ... not what I envision ballet dancers to be ... but we are in a society that values different things in women these days

Anyhooo ... here's a first effort. Of course, I had to find a difficult figure ... but she is long and flowing

  #47   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:00 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorix
And it certainly looks like he's combined photos, as she's alone in the photo, while part of a group in the painting. What if it really is the same girl in different photos, in different poses, but combined?

Sometimes life is full of happy little coincidences. When I chose to post the painting of the "Blue Dancers" the other day, I had no idea we would be discussing Degas' photographic reference. Today, when looking for Degas photos of dancers, 3 of the 4 photos I found are...from the "Blue Dancers" painting!

Charlie, you are exactly right! One model, different photos...




The poses are mirrored in the painting, but there is no doubt these are the other two dancers in the painting. I will also note that Degas used tracing paper very often for his dancers and nudes. Many of them are composed from multiple sources, and multiple sketches traced into one composition. He would often trace an entirely new painting over the top of the old - often experimenting with different color combinations and small variations in the poses. This is why so many of his pastels are done on tracing paper - not exactly the best paper for holding pastels.

One comment that ties this into the lesson a bit more - one of the best uses for a stick figure is in creating a sketch without a model, or to create quick compositional sketches without spending as much time and effort as Degas did tracing. In a case like this, where you have multiple photos, you can easily use the stick figure to help create your composition. With multiple stick figures in one composition, you can work out the location of your landmarks and proportions in relation to one another, even if the photo references are not the same scale.

Don
  #48   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:10 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi Kathryn,

Nice! The proportions look good and there is a nice flowing line through the entire pose!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn Wilson
hmmmmmmmmmmm .... I think I was born a century too late ... those nude figures look like me! short legs, pear shaped ... not what I envision ballet dancers to be ... but we are in a society that values different things in women these days

Anyhooo ... here's a first effort. Of course, I had to find a difficult figure ... but she is long and flowing

  #49   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:23 PM
Kathryn Wilson's Avatar
Kathryn Wilson Kathryn Wilson is offline
A WC! Legend
Raleigh, NC
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,464
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Looking at her here, she looks kinda stiff, but all in all, not bad for a first run. I think her bum is not flat on the floor (my photo is crooked, but that's not the problem).
  #50   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-17-2009, 11:43 PM
maw-t's Avatar
maw-t maw-t is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
tx
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,330
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAK723
Sometimes life is full of happy little coincidences. When I chose to post the painting of the "Blue Dancers" the other day, I had no idea we would be discussing Degas' photographic reference. Today, when looking for Degas photos of dancers, 3 of the 4 photos I found are...from the "Blue Dancers" painting!

Charlie, you are exactly right! One model, different photos...




The poses are mirrored in the painting, but there is no doubt these are the other two dancers in the painting. I will also note that Degas used tracing paper very often for his dancers and nudes. Many of them are composed from multiple sources, and multiple sketches traced into one composition. He would often trace an entirely new painting over the top of the old - often experimenting with different color combinations and small variations in the poses. This is why so many of his pastels are done on tracing paper - not exactly the best paper for holding pastels.

One comment that ties this into the lesson a bit more - one of the best uses for a stick figure is in creating a sketch without a model, or to create quick compositional sketches without spending as much time and effort as Degas did tracing. In a case like this, where you have multiple photos, you can easily use the stick figure to help create your composition. With multiple stick figures in one composition, you can work out the location of your landmarks and proportions in relation to one another, even if the photo references are not the same scale.

Don

All of this is so interesting to me! I love his work, but never studied him. The way he used tracing paper and layering reminds me of the way we use gimp/photo shop etc, today.. seems he was using all the technology available to him!

Kathryn nice job on your figure!
__________________
C & Cs _always_ welcome!
Blessings & HaPpY day to you!

T
  #51   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-24-2009, 06:44 PM
Mario V's Avatar
Mario V Mario V is offline
Veteran Member
Zagreb
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 560
 
Hails from Croatia
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

I found this exercise very useful. It took me much shorter to do the freehand figure with the "sticks" than I'd do otherwise (usually with negative spaces and a lot of measurement).
Don, although many flaws are visible I'm very grateful for this lesson!!!
I first printed the photos, did the stick on the photo, and then used white paper and a pencil to dothe sticks and the outlines (not posted here).
Major mistakes were very visible on that first attempt and I've tried not to repeat them on the pastel versions (see below).
I will try the ballerinas if this class takes some more time



__________________
Mario
my blog Soft Pastel News
  #52   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:06 AM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Mario, Thanks for posting! I am glad you are finding the "sticks" helpful. It is really just another method of doing a preliminary sketch or a thumbnail, but allows you to do your preliminary work directly on your final painting if you want to. Of course, it takes practice - so I am glad you have begun your practicing! They look good!

As I mention in my lesson, there are many techniques to start a figure drawing or painting - the stick figure is one of them and can, of course, be combined with other methods of measuring and laying out.

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvuk
I found this exercise very useful. It took me much shorter to do the freehand figure with the "sticks" than I'd do otherwise (usually with negative spaces and a lot of measurement).
Don, although many flaws are visible I'm very grateful for this lesson!!!
I first printed the photos, did the stick on the photo, and then used white paper and a pencil to dothe sticks and the outlines (not posted here).
Major mistakes were very visible on that first attempt and I've tried not to repeat them on the pastel versions (see below).
I will try the ballerinas if this class takes some more time



  #53   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:38 PM
NancyS.'s Avatar
NancyS. NancyS. is offline
Senior Member
California
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 335
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi Don,
Here's another attempt from me. I've been struggling with this one a lot and decided to just give it a rest and go ahead and post. The head might be a little too big, maybe that was from looking at the Degas painting . Feel free to critique honestly, I welcome your comments, negative or positive. Thanks!

Nancy

  #54   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,571
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Nancy, you caught this hunk's sixpack!
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #55   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 05:15 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi Nancy, thanks for posting! This is looking good! I think your own critique (head too large) is accurate, but not a huge deal, as the head is cropped. You have done a good job depicting the light and shadow, especially as it models the muscles. And yes, as Charlie has mentioned, you have captured the muscles in the abdominal area of this gentleman especially well.

One thing I would double check - I'm looking at this painting without comparing it to the reference - would be the thickness of the arms, especially the arm on our left (his right arm). It seems a bit thin.

I like the addition of some of those cooler, grayer tones in the shadows.

One last minor nit-pick - I think you could minimize or remove the dark line on the side on the right side (our right) of his nose. You have done a nice job with many lost and found edges where the the lights of the skin come up against the lights of the background. That "line" of the nose is the only place where you have a bit of an outline that is too visible. I think another softer or lost edge would work there. You have really done well with the soft edges!

I look forward to seeing more! Nice job!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyS.
Hi Don,
Here's another attempt from me. I've been struggling with this one a lot and decided to just give it a rest and go ahead and post. The head might be a little too big, maybe that was from looking at the Degas painting . Feel free to critique honestly, I welcome your comments, negative or positive. Thanks!

Nancy

  #56   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
NancyS.'s Avatar
NancyS. NancyS. is offline
Senior Member
California
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 335
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorix
Nancy, you caught this hunk's sixpack!

Charlie,
It does look like he spends lots of time at the gym. Maybe that's why I made his head so big, trying to compensate for all those muscles

Here's my first attempt. I used La Carte paper and accidentally let a drop of water fall on it, that's the big white blotch in the lower part of the painting. I think I'm ready to paint something else now.

  #57   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 05:38 PM
NancyS.'s Avatar
NancyS. NancyS. is offline
Senior Member
California
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 335
 
Hails from United States
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Don,
You're right about the line along the edge of the nose and, I hadn't noticed the arm being too think but now that I look at it, I see what you mean. I'll see if I can fix those things. Thanks!

Nancy
  #58   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-25-2009, 06:25 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi Nancy, This one is very nice, too! I really like the shadow colors - in fact, all the flesh tones are nice. Again, some great soft edges.

I, too have a LaCarte painting with some white blobs.

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyS.
Charlie,
It does look like he spends lots of time at the gym. Maybe that's why I made his head so big, trying to compensate for all those muscles

Here's my first attempt. I used La Carte paper and accidentally let a drop of water fall on it, that's the big white blotch in the lower part of the painting. I think I'm ready to paint something else now.

  #59   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-27-2009, 02:24 PM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,571
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi, I'm joining in, finally!

(Can't bring myself just yet to sketch the guy, he's definitely not my type with brawn no brain and that ridiculous costume.)

So, ta-dah, my first stick figure according to the Don Method!



About real size.
First pic: Eyeballing the joint-points, I tried to help gravity, as gal looked so lopsided -- didn't work.
Second pic: Next I was a bit more careful with where to place the points, using mostly invisible plumblines, but still not really careful measuring, but I fought hard to not make her more 'balanced', and went with the 'wild' leaning.
Third pic: just mapped in darks/mid/light, and hey, she looked much more like the photo!

Kind of a rush-job, though.

Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #60   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-27-2009, 03:48 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is online now
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,010
 
Re: ESP - Portrait & Figure Fundamentals - Lesson 5: The Figure, Part 1

Hi Charlie! Thanks for posting! Your third example definitely captures the flow of the pose beautifully. It may have been quick, but sometimes quick is better! You record what you need and don't get bogged down in elements that don't really contribute much to the pose.

Nice!

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorix
Hi, I'm joining in, finally!

(Can't bring myself just yet to sketch the guy, he's definitely not my type with brawn no brain and that ridiculous costume.)

So, ta-dah, my first stick figure according to the Don Method!



About real size.
First pic: Eyeballing the joint-points, I tried to help gravity, as gal looked so lopsided -- didn't work.
Second pic: Next I was a bit more careful with where to place the points, using mostly invisible plumblines, but still not really careful measuring, but I fought hard to not make her more 'balanced', and went with the 'wild' leaning.
Third pic: just mapped in darks/mid/light, and hey, she looked much more like the photo!

Kind of a rush-job, though.

Charlie

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.