Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum consistancy of flake white

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  • #986622
    !becca
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        This is a simple, I hope not too foolish question. I tried my new tube of flake white the other evening and it was very stiff and pasty. It required that I use both hands to squeeze it from the tube. How stiff is it supposed to be? I used it as it was because I was mixing with other color, but think that maybe it need a little linseed or other oil.

        Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
        Becca's Fine Art

        #1088243
        Sir Paul
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            That’s normal for most of the flake(lead) whites I’ve tried. Really gives my hands a workout putting a ‘vice’ round one of those tubes. You could add an oil.. though if you’re using it as your ONLY white.. it may become slightly ‘yellowed’ in the light areas later with a linseed.
            I usually break it down with a touch of turpentine.. But then, I only use lead whites for any underpainting layers… and prefer to use even lighter,whiter, fluffier Titanium white for the actual ‘white stuff’. I never add a thing to titanium- It comes out of the tube quite ‘fluffy’.

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            #1088241

            Hi !becca,
            My flake white made by BLOCKX is very stiff, and the tube is quite heavy (compared to other tubes of paint the same size) because it contains lead. Check and see if your tube of flake white contains lead, which may account for its stiffness. Personally, I prefer my white paint stiff so that my final light (colors + white, or white alone) brushstrokes in impasto stand up nicely. Someone else hopefully will reply with good ideas about adding oil or medium, as I don’t do this. If not, call the maker of the paint to ask them directly for suggestions. Hope this helps.

            Lynn Lindley, PSA
            Web site: www.LynnLindley.com
            Featuring original realistic still life paintings captured in oil, pastel, and colored pencil.

            #1088253
            !becca
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                thanks for the reply
                Sir Paul, you might be interested in knowing that I was using that flake white in a quick portrait I did trying working med to shadow to light. Made an interesting piece, and lots more paint on the canvas.
                Aspiring artist, my tube is windsor and newton and yes, lead. I do like the fact that it has less fade when dry, I have used zinc white in the past for that.

                Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                Becca's Fine Art

                #1088266
                Naturegyrll
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                    I love Flake White, but whoever thought it should be put in a tube with a tiny opening has a serious warped sense of humor!

                    [FONT=Palatino Linotype]Carol
                    [FONT=Palatino Linotype]"Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." ~ Pablo Picasso

                    #1088254
                    !becca
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                        You are so right!

                        Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                        Becca's Fine Art

                        #1088249
                        AnnieA
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                            I’m just a beginner here, but I just read something in Brushwork for the Oil Painter, by Emile Gruppe, that may answer your question. That is presuming you can get the paint out of the tube. :D

                            He advised “beating the white,” by which he meant whipping it with medium with his palette knife until it had the consistency of mayonnaise. He said that he always did this (he called it a “ritual”) when first laying the paint out on the palette, before painting, so that there was no need to break the white paint down when mixing it with other hues; he said that would lead to overmixing. He also mentioned that for some very oily paints there was no need to do this.

                            It’s probably important to note that Gruppe used as his medium a mixture made of one part stand oil to five parts turpentine, and used a lot of medium because he painted alla prima. It may be that whipping up the whites won’t work for all types of paintings, but I tried it yesterday for a small alla prima piece, albeit with a different medium (Galkyd), and it seemed to be a useful approach.

                            As a related question, I’m curious about how Permalba fits into all this. My tube of it is very stiff as well. I had understood it to be a mixture of titanium and zinc white, but just recently read that it contains lead. Is that true?

                            [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
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                            “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

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                            #1088255
                            !becca
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                                thanks, I have stand oil, will try it, but have considered just adding a little titanium to the flake. Before buying the flake white I had often mixed titanium and zinc for a better cover. From what I had understood, titanium white contains lead. This info is from my memory which is sometimes flawed.

                                Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                Becca's Fine Art

                                #1088256
                                !becca
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                                    I just read the labels of all my whites, titanium, zinc, and flake, all contain lead.

                                    Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                    Becca's Fine Art

                                    #1088250
                                    AnnieA
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                                        Thanks, Ibecca, although I wonder if the lead content is something particular to your brand of paint. I thought the development of titanium, and part of the reason for it’s popularity, was that it replaced the old toxic lead-based flake white. What brand(s) do you use?

                                        That leads me to wonder if the info I got on Permalba containing lead was accurate…

                                        Well, someone had posted some mis-information earlier about Permalba. I just checked my tube and it says that it does not contain lead. That’s a relief…

                                        [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                                        [FONT=Palatino]
                                        “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                                        http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                                        #1088257
                                        !becca
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                                            Right now I’m using Windsor and Newton Artist oils, but Grumbacher was the same.

                                            Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                            Becca's Fine Art

                                            #1088244
                                            Sir Paul
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                                                W&N Titanium? No… no lead.

                                                Titanium dioxide PW 6
                                                Zinc oxide PW 4

                                                …Lead is ‘lead carbonate’ – PW1

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                                                #1088248
                                                night
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                                                    This is VERY strange. Your Titanium tube white contains lead? From W&N?

                                                    #1088258
                                                    !becca
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                                                        Yes, back of tube states warning, this product contains lead, a product known to cause… W&N artist oil colours.

                                                        Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                                        Becca's Fine Art

                                                        #1088251

                                                        Titanium or zinc, I can’t remember which, is commonly contaminated with a very low, I think less than a 0.01% of lead.
                                                        W&N put the warning there not because those tubes are dangerous, but to avoid possible law suits in some American States.

                                                        insert pithy comment here.

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