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Old 05-26-2016, 10:49 AM
BothHands BothHands is offline
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How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

I'm seeking a "Rule of Thumb." A general understanding.

Most of the time I don't want my Chroma Atelier paints to reactivate from contact with water.
Experience suggests the following, but I'd appreciate an expert opinion:


A) Adding any MEDIUM to the paint renders that paint non-interactive.
I have the following Chroma mediums on hand:
Binder Medium, Fast Medium/Fixer, Slow Medium, Acrylic Glazing Liquid, Matte Medium

Q1: Does each of those Chroma mediums render the paint non-interactive?

Q2: If so, do they all affect interactivity to the same extent?

Q3: How much Chroma medium does it take to render the paint fully non-interactive?
I'm seeking an answer such as, "A mixture containing 10% medium."

Q4: Will Chroma Unlocking Formula reliably reactivate Chroma paints made non-interactive
by combining them with the Chroma mediums listed above?


B) Mixing STANDARD ACRYLIC PAINT with Chroma Atelier Interactive paint renders the Chroma paints non-interactive.


Q5: How much standard acrylic paint is needed to render the Chroma paint fully non-interactive?
I'm seeking an answer such as, "A paint mixture containing 10% standard acrylic paint."

Thanks
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:03 PM
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DickHutchings DickHutchings is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

I'd love to get these answers as well. Good question.
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Old 05-29-2016, 03:21 PM
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lensman lensman is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

I think you'll find the answers to your questions on atelieracrylic.com website. The mediums labelled "Traditional" are just that; they make the paint non-reactive. And the ones labelled "Interactive" serve to adjust the paint's viscosity without affecting the ability to be re-activated.

I appreciate you want to know how much traditional medium would make the paint non-interactive but I would (without expert knowledge) say that almost any traditional medium added (thoroughly mixed) would make the paint non-interactive.

http://www.atelieracrylic.com/artists-mediums
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Old 05-29-2016, 05:52 PM
BothHands BothHands is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

Thanks for the helpful reply and link, Lensman. Apparently there have been changes in the Chroma mediums product line:

1) Universal Medium/Varnish sounds like a direct response to my complaints and criticisms spanning a couple of years. Hmmm. I've been saying there are too many mediums, too much confusion about which to use and not enough obvious/useful difference in their features/characteristics. If you think manufacturers don't benefit from your comments and ideas voiced in online forums, think again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2) I have the following Chroma mediums on hand and would like Chroma confirmation of the following:
Binder Medium = No longer listed. Has it been discontinued, or simply renamed "Gloss Medium"?

Fast Medium/Fixer = The website description suggests this dries waterproof, as before. How much medium is added to paint to assure a waterproof paint/medium mixture?

Slow Medium = Website suggests this is as re-wettable or perhaps more re-wettable than the paint alone would be. 1) Is either of those descriptions an accurate statement? 2) How much medium is required for suitable, non-tacky results?

Acrylic Glazing Liquid = 1) Has this been discontinued, or simply renamed as "Glazing Liquid (Gloss)"? 2) Is this glazing medium WHITE?!!! 3) How much of this medium must be mixed with paint to render a waterproof surface when dry?

Matte Medium = No longer listed. Has this been discontinued?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


B) Mixing STANDARD ACRYLIC PAINT with Chroma Atelier Interactive paint renders the Chroma paints non-interactive.


Q5: How much standard acrylic paint is needed to render the Chroma paint fully non-interactive?

I'm seeking an answer such as, "A paint mixture containing 10% standard acrylic paint."

60
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:23 AM
jennifervs jennifervs is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay - I was away from a computer over the long holiday weekend!


Regarding some general answers to these questions, truly, it depends on a variety of factors, including your surface, humidity, mediums and how thickly you paint, so I cannot give any exact or precise answer. All I can tell you from my personal painting experience is that if I use 25-30% of a traditional medium: Interactive paint while painting on gessoed canvas in my hot, un-airconditioned dry studio, my layers do not interact with water. Bear in mind that I eyeball the amount of medium I am adding. The layers are fairly thin in this mixture. If I paint outdoors, or move to a surface like a panel or paper, or paint impasto with a knife, or my humidity increases, the experience will be different.


Recall too, that my personal preference for making a layer non-interactive is to seal it with a traditional medium such as Binder Medium or Universal Medium more often than mixing a traditional medium into my underlying paint. Then when I start glazing, I use Acrylic Glazing Liquid or Universal Medium in 80/90% medium/paint ratio. I have found that this general ratio works well for me for glazes. Each glaze layer seals as it goes. As long as I have given my glaze enough time to really dry - or I dry it with a hairdryer - I don't have problems with glazes lifting or interacting. In tests, we have found that glazes made in particular with the Universal Medium are resistant to the Unlocking Formula.


But the process of using AI in its "native" state, and only sealing when I want to glaze extensively at the end of my painting, is just the way I work. Other than sealing, it's a lot like how I paint with oils. I develop my layers, set the paint aside to dry for a few days or a week, and then start glazing. Because I'm using acrylics, I can glaze much, much earlier. I know that you (BothHands) have had some concerns on sealing a painting, how it affects the sheen and how you are unable to accurately predict values or colors. Your style seems to be much more indirect with glazes. I wish I could be of more assistance, but the experience of working and painting with any medium or paint line is what will give you the best knowledge for your particular style.


Regarding mediums on the website atelieracrylic.com, not every medium is on the site, because the site has an international focus. But yes, the Binder Medium, Fast Medium/Fixer, Matte Medium and Acrylic Glazing Liquid do exist, as well as a Gloss Medium. They are all milky but dry translucent, including the Universal Medium. The Universal Medium is pretty glossy, too. The Binder Medium is listed under Grounds and Varnishes.


The Slow Medium is the most re-wettable of mediums, so DO NOT use this if you are looking for non-interactive layers. Adding any amount will make Interactive even more Interactive.


The key takeaway from all this is that if you incorporate a traditional medium into your paint mixtures, or apply a sealing layer on top of dry layers, you create a non-interactive surface. Which traditional medium to use is really your choice regarding on viscosity, sheen and handling properties - which is why if you ask 3 different artists on which mediums they use, you are likely to get 3 different responses.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:21 AM
BothHands BothHands is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

Thanks, Jennifer, for the extensive reply. It's almost a tutorial on "How to Paint."

The "general" information you provide is in line with the general conclusions I continue to draw from my own experiences. I was hoping for more specifics, but as you point out, there are a lot of variables.

As you may have read in other threads, I find it impossible to employ isolation layers throughout the painting process. You suggest applying a single isolation layer near the end, just before glazing. That might help, but I glaze and employ various techniques throughout the painting process, making it necessary to apply full and partial isolation layers fairly frequently.
a) I complete Paint Layer 1, which involves slightly varying sheen levels depending on paint colors used.

b) I apply Isolation Layer 1 atop Paint Layer 1 in the form of Fast Medium/Fixer thinned with water. This does indeed make the underlying paint impervious to water contained in the next paint layer. And in the process, all the underlying paint color is intensified in terms of Hue and Value (similar to applying gloss varnish).
c) Now I'm in Big Trouble with regard to mixing any further colors. When I paint them atop that isolation layer, the new colors have not yet been intensified the way the underlying colors have. The Hue and Value of this new paint layer are effectively "muted" relative to the intensified underlying paint. Under these conditions, I find it impossible to mix colors that accurately relate to the existing/underlying colors.
As you suggest, employing just one isolation coat at the end--just prior to glazing--could reduce the difficulties, but the problem remains. Any glazes applied atop that iso layer will be just as inaccurate as the description in item "c" above. And perhaps more so, because the Glazing Medium is MILKY WHITE until it dries. Honestly, that makes no sense to me. The milky medium effectively tints the paint mixture, making it doubly impossible to judge the color or the level of transparency in relation to underlying colors. And to complicate matters even more, the tinted aspect of the color mixture disappears once the glaze dries.

I hope you'll send Jim Cobb a link to this post, and suggest he switch to a CLEAR Glazing Medium (and consider sending me a check ).

It's funny (not) that the only clear medium I have is your Slow Medium, so I've been mixing that with my paints for just about every purpose/application. OF COURSE, it turns out to be the most re-wettable, causing my paints to be more interactive. Murphy's Law never rests...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm sure Chroma Atelier Interactive paints work beautifully for many painters, and they might work well for me
IF
I change my methods. But for now my "unusual techniques" are not well suited to the unique (and very cool)
water re-wettable feature.

I'm attempting to sell my new/unopened palette set of colors HERE on WC.

If I'm not able to find a buyer, I would like to mix them with STANDARD
ACRYLICS (maybe Jo Sonja Artist Colors) to:
1) increase opacity, and
2) render them non-interactive.

Please advise as to whether that will work, and how much
standard acrylic paint is necessary to render the Chroma Interactives
non-interactive.

As always, I appreciate the help.
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Old 05-31-2016, 03:55 PM
jennifervs jennifervs is offline
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Re: How to render "Interactives" NON-interactive?

I can only imagine your frustration...I will certainly let Mr. Cobb know!

Regarding how much to mix (conventional acrylic with Interactive) again it will depend on brands. I'd start with 50/50 mix and see if that works for your methods.

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