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  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:13 AM
Michael Lion Michael Lion is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
after 10 years of solvent exposition 8 hours per day 280 days per year.
Do you understand the difference of solvento-fobia and scientific research? Solventofobs are already fall in panic with one second exposition of solvent odor, while scientific laboratory examine people who were in contact with solvent during decades in their life and 8 hours per day 280 days per year.

If anybody have real statistic information about how many amateur oil painting artists died by Gamsol exposition or became health damaged and are seriously ill because of Gamsol fumes exposition at home, then show me such statistic. I will be glad to read all of such scientific papers! Personally, I can't find even one guy who is affected by artistic solvent including artists' grade White spirit and bona fide turpentine. However, some artists told me, that they do not like kerosene odor, but odor of artists grade turpentine is much more pleasant.
I can consider some of allergy reaction due to "dead" turpentine exposition but nobody around me have allergy on artistic white spirit. But on WC, a lot of artists reported heavy allergy reactions on any petroleum distillate. I can understand, that several persons have real allergy, but not hundreds of them. That is more than a strange. It seems that somebody try to directly demonize OMS among WC artists and such people have their special reason to do that demonization. I don't understand why. The debates of amateur "toxicologysts" is most popular debates on WC. It might be better to open special Toxicology forum on WC with professional toxicologysts and medical moderators. To help solventofobs and medical patients to find good answers on their toxicity questions!

Great post!
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:28 PM
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kinasi kinasi is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
If anybody have real statistic information about how many amateur oil painting artists died by Gamsol exposition or became health damaged and are seriously ill because of Gamsol fumes exposition at home, then show me such statistic.


Where is this idea coming from that Gamsol is safe? It's a solvent is it not? Everything I read about this product is marketing talk from Gamblin. They don't want to say who makes it, they don't want to say exactly what is in it. They say it is not an industrial product, yet every solvent is I know of is produced by large refining companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
It seems that somebody try to directly demonize OMS among WC artists and such people have their special reason to do that demonization.


Who is pushing the idea that solvent are safe? Are you sure about the safety of products you champion? Do you know anything about gamsol outside of Gambling heavily promoting it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
But on WC, a lot of artists reported heavy allergy reactions on any petroleum distillate. I can understand, that several persons have real allergy, but not hundreds of them.


Dermatitis and allergic reactions as a result of using solvents is incredibly common. It's not weird at all, I had them too, another reason I stopped using solvents completely. Laughing them off is ridiculous, they are heavily documented.
.

Last edited by kinasi : 06-17-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:53 PM
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kinasi kinasi is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Personally, I can't find even one guy who is affected by artistic solvent including artists' grade White spirit and bona fide turpentine.


Really? It took me 5 seconds.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12194157

Neuropathy in an artist exposed to organic solvents in paints: a case study.

"A 61-year-old artist in Israel had been painting for 30 years in his home studio. He had been healthy until he reached the age of 59.5 years, at which time he began complaining of weakness and paresthesia in both hands and legs. He also complained that he had difficulty concentrating, and his memory was impaired.

His work was unusual in that he painted large posters (i.e., 2 x 3 m) with different mixtures of organic solvents. He did not use any protective gloves and did not wear a mask.

He was evaluated with several methods and was diagnosed as having peripheral and central neuropathy, including ototoxic hearing loss as a result of long exposures to organic solvents."

Last edited by kinasi : 06-17-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:20 PM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinasi
Really? It took me 5 seconds.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12194157

Neuropathy in an artist exposed to organic solvents in paints: a case study.

"A 61-year-old artist in Israel had been painting for 30 years in his home studio. He had been healthy until he reached the age of 59.5 years, at which time he began complaining of weakness and paresthesia in both hands and legs. He also complained that he had difficulty concentrating, and his memory was impaired.

His work was unusual in that he painted large posters (i.e., 2 x 3 m) with different mixtures of organic solvents. He did not use any protective gloves and did not wear a mask.

He was evaluated with several methods and was diagnosed as having peripheral and central neuropathy, including ototoxic hearing loss as a result of long exposures to organic solvents."
Looks like chronic Lead intoxication. "Weakness and paresthesia in both hands and legs. He also complained that he had difficulty concentrating, and his memory was impaired" = Lead poisoning (saturnism) symptoms. OMS do not gives such health damaging symptoms. As for Gamsol, it is completely safe to use when used PROPERLY.

BTW, Kinasi, who desided to use toluene, xylene, benzene, methyl ethyl ketone, toluene diisocyanate, acetone in oil painting? 30 years of Bensene exposition can kill even an elephant!

Last edited by Gigalot : 06-17-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:53 PM
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Ellis Ammons Ellis Ammons is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

You can test if you air is safe or not with http://www.shop3m.com/3m-organic-vap...itor-3500.html. They say it would take a sealed room with 500+ artists all painting with gamsol to have a toxic level.

Also orange terpene is a solvent that is generally regarded as safe by the FDA. Thats scientists and doctors telling you that.. As long as your not allergic to it anyway.. Some people are allergic to bread. It's food grade terpene and will not cause you injury long term according to NFPA level 2 and the MSDS.

Also spike lavender is also generally regarded as safe by the FDA.

There are many solvents out there that are safe to use as long as you use them as directed. As well as the green for oil thinner out now thats non-toxic. Which may or not be good stuff IDK still out to lunch on that one.

So yea.. Oil painting is not a toxic wasteland as it once was. Neither is humanity in general. There is no need to act like solvents are the equivalent of nuclear fallout. Some people are allergic to certain things but thats the way off all things.
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Last edited by Ellis Ammons : 06-17-2018 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:59 PM
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Gigalot Gigalot is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lion
Read the article you linked to. The guy used benzene, toluene, and xylene, all known to be hazardous to health, especially the benzene, and he was painting huge 2 feet by 3 feet posters.
30 years to paint posters? They are kidding us!
This guy also used highly toxic toluene diisocyanate, a monomer, used to make polyurethane. What did he do with such product? It can be used in organic polymer synthesis but not as a solvent. This product classified as "highly toxic".
Probably he was a cheap worker on the construction where polyurethane spray foams used in large amount. (immigrant) as he was not informed about toluene diisocyanate toxicity. Also, he used spray paint and nitrocellulose enamels because he was exposed with spray paint diluents and nitrocellulose solvents as toluene, acetone, MEK, benzene are. I am sure he wasn't an artist, just poor immigrant worked hard at the constructions and as a housepainter. As he has strong symptoms of Lead poisoning but strangely do not have a problems with liver, while toxic solvent must affect his liver at first.
As a spray paint housepainter he was heavily intoxicated with Lead, and the other time, when he was worked on the construction, he was also poisoned with polyuirethane monomers when used spray foams sealants.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:17 PM
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sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lion
And reminder: water is a solvent, so when you say solvent=unsafe, that's totally and completely false. Nothing is safer than water.

Water is not a solvent for, and does not mix with traditional oils or paints. In the WMO forum, water is a solvent for those type of oil paints.

Last edited by sidbledsoe : 06-18-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:38 AM
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Closing thread pending edits.

Update: re-opening thread.

This thread was originally a question about whether liquin is considered fat over lean. And it went way off topic.

Let's not re-open these old arguments.
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Last edited by stapeliad : 06-19-2018 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:21 PM
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Seems there's numerous methods to try. Thank you for sharing your different approaches.
Thank you Stapeliad for your direct answer.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to help.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:25 AM
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Re: Please, relieve me from this silly state of confusion

Thread closed.
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