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Old 02-23-2017, 04:14 PM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

[quote=bluefish]who did those ratings?..... /QUOTE]

TEPPFA - The European Pipe and Plastic Fitting Association
https://plasticpipe.org/pdf/tepffa-e...ssociation.pdf

PIPA -The Plastic Industry Pipe Associan details how the tests were conducted
http://www.pipa.com.au/news/now-prov...fin-sewer-pipe
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Old 02-23-2017, 06:20 PM
bluefish bluefish is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

thank you kindly...very interesting articles....if one of those sewer pipes should ever rupture, a few sheets of Yupo wrapped around the pipe with a few band clamps and we are back in business!

best of luck with acrylic on Yupo...please keep us updated....
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:15 PM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

Almost all my acrylics and (now) oils are painted on commercial hardboard.

I buy 24" x 48" sheets of 1/4" untempered hardboard at Home Depot (mostly because any sheet larger will not fit in my car!) and cut them (tablesaw is best, but jigsaw works as well) into panels the size I use most often (18" x 24", 16" x 24", 16" x 20", 12" x 16" etc.). One of these sheets is about $8. I prime them with very high quality (important!) flat white wall paint (ala Michael David Smith) and seal the edges with paint. When sealed with paint or gesso, preferably on both sides, they should last almost forever (and not warp) if not literally submerged in water.

I really think it is a colossal waste of resources and expense to use aluminum or plastics of any sort when an inexpensive, perfectly suitable smooth painting surface like commercial hardboard is available, especially if "smoothness" is what you are mostly looking for. It is a really smooth surface!
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Last edited by Scott Anthony : 02-23-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 02-24-2017, 04:48 AM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

I just cut them with a handsaw. Less noise, less sawdust and not a lot more time.

The only drawback is it leaves a ragged back side, but that's just a few minutes' work with a sanding block, and I like to round over the edges anyway.

I prime with Zinsser Bin 2, rolled on with a foam roller. Get just a bit of texture that way.
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Old 02-24-2017, 06:40 AM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by studiokatto
There's also cradle boards. Essentially wood board panels with sides like a deep canvas, all wood. You just need to gesso over it before using it, then you can sand it lightly to have a super smooth surface.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/am...inting-panels/

I've used those for both acrylic and oil paintings. I really like them. I've prepped them with clear gesso at times, which is nice. I never use white gesso, but the clear is a nice alternative to my usual Venetian red. I find them best for when I'm doing smallish portraits, when I find the texture of canvas to be a hindrance.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:24 AM
The Avenger The Avenger is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Anthony
Almost all my acrylics and (now) oils are painted on commercial hardboard.

I buy 24" x 48" sheets of 1/4" untempered hardboard at Home Depot (mostly because any sheet larger will not fit in my car!) and cut them (tablesaw is best, but jigsaw works as well) into panels the size I use most often (18" x 24", 16" x 24", 16" x 20", 12" x 16" etc.). One of these sheets is about $8. I prime them with very high quality (important!) flat white wall paint (ala Michael David Smith) and seal the edges with paint. When sealed with paint or gesso, preferably on both sides, they should last almost forever (and not warp) if not literally submerged in water.

I really think it is a colossal waste of resources and expense to use aluminum or plastics of any sort when an inexpensive, perfectly suitable smooth painting surface like commercial hardboard is available, especially if "smoothness" is what you are mostly looking for. It is a really smooth surface!
Although I understand various methods can be used to prevent this,Would a frame added to the hard board(similar to the canvas frame) prevent the warping?
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Old 02-24-2017, 03:46 PM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

That's the cradle some have mentioned here.

You don't really need it unless the painting is bigger than, for example, 18 x 24. Don't let the larger pieces sag or you will have to unsag them before use. Keep both sides exposed to the air, as a moisture imbalance will cause warping. Best to find a way to keep them vertical
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Old 02-25-2017, 02:40 PM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumblefingers
I just cut them with a handsaw. Less noise, less sawdust and not a lot more time. The only drawback is it leaves a ragged back side, but that's just a few minutes' work with a sanding block, and I like to round over the edges anyway.

I prime with Zinsser Bin 2, rolled on with a foam roller. Get just a bit of texture that way.
-----------
You can avoid the "ragged" back if you put masking tape on both sides of the line where you intend to cut... then cut thru the masking tape.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:07 PM
Mita108 Mita108 is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

I just bought some 'masonite' hardboard from my local hardware store. Cost $10 for a 900 by 600 piece. I used acrylic prime to cover the whole piece (back and front) and noticed that the smooth side is very easy to paint but the back is highly absorbent. Anyway, I sanded the smooth side once it was dry and then gave it another coat of primer. Then sanded that again. I didn't bother sanding the rough back side because I'm not painting on it. I did have to give it a second coat because it completely swallowed up the first coat. Then I cut the sheet in half and used the prime (undiluted) on all the edges, to ensure that it is sealed. I think the important thing with using hardboard is that it's properly sealed with a good primer so that moisture doesn't creep in and create warping.

The surface is beautiful and smooth, similar to an ampersand gessoboard (which is very expensive to purchase) and as I am painting with oils, I decided to paint a toned ground with cremnitz white mixed with raw umber diluted to a flowing consistency with pure gum turps (the real thing, not industrial turps or white spirits/odourless solvent). This took about a day or two to dry.

I've now painted a couple of layers on this surface and it is incredibly smooth and easy to paint on. If you like smooth surface, this is a very affordable option. The only downside is the preparation time - priming, sanding, sawing to lengths etc. I personally don't like priming and sanding because of the dust and general time consumption. I agree with Bluefish about not wanting to breath all the dust. But if I want to save money I would probably do this again.

I am giving up on cotton canvas because they need too much preparation with primer and sanding to get them to a nice surface, so I end up waisting too much time.

So far I prefer to paint on oil primed linen by Belle Arti, which is expensive but really a very fine surface. Beautiful texture and the paint seems to bond so well with the surface and makes the painting process easier.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:56 AM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

I have paintings on hardboard (Masonite) that are over 40 years old. No damage or deterioration at all.
Carolyn
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:42 AM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

At Home Depot and Lowes I'm only finding "3/16" - (actually .115") thick masonite, and smooth on both sides. Seems like they use to have 1/4" that was rough on one side. Is anyone painting on the smooth on both sides "3/16" (actually .115") masonite?
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:20 AM
old_hobbyist old_hobbyist is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

I have been painting on hardboard for many yrs.

There are several types, all of which work well. It is hard to find untempered board (does not have glossy surface) in my area. IMHO it is the best because it has a smooth matte finish. The one-sided and two-sided hardboard is called tempered. Interestingly the old one-sided 1/4" and the new two-sided 1/8" boards weigh about the same.

The positive surface(s) are glossy. I cut the gloss but not the smoothness with 4-0 sandpaper.

I paint both sides and all edges with interior acrylic house paint. I've used the Zinsser Bin shellac but have found cheaper ACE paint works fine. Sealing the edges is important to prevent moisture from swelling the edges of the board.

Some issues to keep in mind
  • Standing hardboard (or birch plywood) on its long end will encourage (permanent) warping - whether unpainted or painted
  • IMHO porosity counts. Sanding hardboard is important because high-water content paint may not adhere (long term) to a very smooth non-absorbent surface. Stacking finished but not fully "cured" ptgs on hardboard without adequate spacing is NOT a very good idea! [Experience counts here!]
    Here's something to keep in mind if you are having very large sheets diced into tiny sheets at the local big box. Big box saws have very wide kerfs and few tpi's because the blades are designed to cut thru just about anything a shopper wants cut. Wide kerfs chew up a lot of surface area and leave very ragged edges. My local big box saw blade kerf is just under 3/16". Cutting a 96" board into eight 12" segments yields eight 11-13/16" wide boards.
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Last edited by old_hobbyist : 03-15-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:29 AM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

There is some conventional "wisdom" that stretched canvas is the preferred support in terms of sales/marketability. But I'm wondering if this is still true, or just something we all keep repeating without any data or "person in the know" to back it up. And if there is some preference - how much of a factor is it? I'm particularly curious about larger - 30"x40" paintings since this is the size I typically paint.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

There's an art business forum where maybe you could get a good answer, if none is forthcoming here.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:08 AM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Alternative to canvas?

This imo is what's wrong with this forum. Every topic is so compartmentalized that it inhibits the natural flow of conversation. In normal discourse one thing leads to another, and you get to learn things maybe you never thought about before. The structure here frustrates that process and I think that is why you see so little postings relative to the membership.

Having said that thanks, Stumblefingers for the advice, much appreciated and I will check it out.
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