Home › Forums › The Learning Center › Studio Tips and Framing › Some canvas questions….
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May 15, 2018 at 9:55 am #456105
I mentioned in my first post (first ever here) that I have been largely inspired by the late Bob Ross. I have his book, ‘The Best of The Joy of Painting’ and in this book, the first chapter is on his supplies….Mr. Ross mentions he used ‘double primed canvas’…now nearly all stretched canvas I’ve seen is primed, yes, but the only ‘double primed’ I have seen is, surprise surprise, in the ‘Bob Ross store’…Now, despite my bemoaning the cost of canvas in that first post, the price is fairly reasonable, but I cannot get past my curiosity about double primed…I assume it means a second priming coat on the canvas…(of course being brand new in this medium, not knowing what the dickens priming is, is a huge handicap) But is the priming done with arcylics? or what exactly? Lastly, I have a pretty good sized roll of ‘orangsburg’ six feet long, Lord alone knows how long…can this be used in some way? Frames and stretching would a real pain the ‘rear elevation’ but if possible…it does seem like a neat trick to pull off…
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May 15, 2018 at 2:17 pm #622548you’ll notice once you start buying canvas, especially canvas on the cheaper end (dollar stores vs art stores), it’s kind of plastic (Really smooth) and oil paints kind of slime around on it.
an extra coat of primer (Gesso – water based artist grade primer) gives the canvas ‘tooth’, aka grip for the paint to cling to.
your ‘orangsburg’ is primed or unprimed canvas? of course it can be used and once it’s (primed) and stretched it’s less necessary to frame – just paint the edges and hang as is
la
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know PeaceMay 15, 2018 at 2:55 pm #622557your ‘orangsburg’ is primed or unprimed canvas? of course it can be used and once it’s (primed) and stretched it’s less necessary to frame – just paint the edges and hang as is
la
Oh defintely unprimed…just plain old cloth…
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May 15, 2018 at 3:53 pm #622549you’ll definitely need some Gesso then, four coats on unprimed is recommended, gently sanded between coats and applied in opposite directions each time. rolled or brushed is fine, go light with it, but not stingy and yes, water it down a bit as it’s quite thick. dries fairly quickly in a well ventilated area.
la
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know PeaceMay 15, 2018 at 5:41 pm #622544For years I’ve been using acrylic-primed, stretched canvas that I purchased from art stores in my area.
A few facts: The canvas fabric, whether it be linen, or cotton, is susceptible to deterioration (rotting) if it comes into contact with…….your guessed it–OIL PAINT. This deterioration will not occur overnight, or within a couple of months, but I’ve actually see evidence of it on some of my painted canvases, on which I had actually painted some Bob Ross style paintings!
The canvas becomes stained on the back, indicating that the oil paint is soaking into the fibers of the fabric of the canvas.
Acrylic priming is applied to the raw cloth of the canvas for the purpose of protecting the canvas from the eventual ravages of oil paint.
However, while most store-bought canvases have acrylic priming applied to them, there is not nearly enough to protect the canvas from the oil paint.
As a result, I’ve been applying many extra coats of acrylic primer to my already-acrylic-primed canvases, for over 30 years. When I open my new canvas, I first sand the surface of the existing, “gesso” (acrylic-primed) surface, using 150-grit sandpaper, and sanding very lightly, but thoroughly.
Then, I take Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, and thin it with water, mixing it until it will run, not just drip, off the corner of my putty knife mixer. I apply this thinned Acrylic Primer with a household sash brush. If it is thin enough with water, it will be “self-leveling”, meaning that the brush strokes will settle, and smooth out after a few seconds of having been applied.
I apply 3 coats of this acrylic primer, stroking vertically for one application, horizontally for the next, then vertically for the next, etc. I allow each application to dry before applying the next.
I sand after every 3 applications. My goal is to thoroughly protect the canvas, and I’ve decided that 3 applications is the bare minimum that will accomplish that. On my canvases, I apply anywhere from 3 to 12 coats of Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, thinned with water, and brushed on. I can accomplish that entire process within one afternoon.
I sand after the final coat, and I allow it to dry for a week or two before applyiing oil paint to the surface.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comMay 15, 2018 at 10:04 pm #622552You should size canvas before putting on a ground. I.E. rabbit skin glue/gac400 or Gac100 before gesso/primer. Size is what stops the oil from penetrating into the fibers of the canvas. Size is also what stops SID in acrylic paint. Golden recommends gloss medium to size for acrylic.
Also I’ve found a roller works better than a brush to apply gesso. It makes little nubbies that are easier to sand down than brush strokes. And don’t get the brush marks showing through to your finished work.. Just a subtle texture you can sand all the way out if you wish.
https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_prepsupp
Check out my work in the acrylics Hall of Fame Camellia WIP
oil and acrylic paintings..
May 16, 2018 at 11:42 am #622558Wow…some neat info there guys…. First- WF: so you are saying that that priming at least 4 times, if not more is the best. And what colors do you use to prime? I would assume basic white would be the basis one, but I can see some paintings might benfit from a light blue…and of course, Bob Ross used black fairly often…at least he used it as the last priming coat before beginning to paint… Secondly_ Ellis…Thanks for your info. And in fact, Ross, in his book, said not to use a brush for gesso…at least black gesso, but a ‘foam applicator’…I would assume that that info would apply to any gesso. I don’t see how color makes much difference in how it is applied… again, thanks folks…La_, (though honestly my comment about the orangeburg was more along the lines of ‘thinking out loud’..) but I do deeply appreicate your help. And also to you, WF, that was something I had never consideder…and you as well Ellis…all help is much appreicted
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May 16, 2018 at 11:51 pm #622555Wow…some neat info there guys…. First- WF: so you are saying that that priming at least 4 times, if not more is the best. And what colors do you use to prime?
Most people use white gesso to prime the canvas. If you want a colored ground then paint a layer of that color on top of the dried gesso. White gesso contains titanium white – so if you mix a color in with the gesso it will take quite a bit of it.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOMay 17, 2018 at 8:05 am #622550When people prime their walls for paint, usually they have a choice of getting the primer (gesso) toned to a similar shade to that of the final paint. Artists also do this for the same or similar reasons. You can also paint the first layer of the painting (if you know what it is) in primer (gesso), usually one tone, but also you can paint in more than one. I used to add acrylic paint to the gesso, they are basically the same thing, so since they are made of nearly the same thing, they also chemically match, so there is no problem mixing them. How much pigment is up to you. I usually go to Hobby Lobby and get some cheap pigment. You might also use wall paint. This is only on the final gesso layer. There are usually several layers of gesso.
Yes it is a bit more pastel due to the addition of the white in gesso, but the final layer of gesso is going to use much less because it is no longer being used to soak into the threads of the canvas.
I use thick unprimed canvas duck by the way, not that plastic-ish stuff they sell for student painters. There are many grades and thicknesses of canvas, including the stuff used for floor cloths which is very thick. I used to work for an opera company making backdrops, and saw that it can be found in many widths and grades that most artists do not even get into.
No longer a member of WC. Bye.
May 19, 2018 at 4:50 pm #622545Wow…some neat info there guys…. First- WF: so you are saying that that priming at least 4 times, if not more is the best. And what colors do you use to prime?
The use of acrylic gesso IS priming. The material that we purchase today called “gesso” is truly acrylic primer. It is white. So, when I speak of applying primer, I am referring to acrylic primer (often called “gesso” on its container).
However, I DO tint my canvas, but I do it with oil paint, and after I have applied sufficient coats of my acrylic primer, and the primer has dried. I generally use Titanium White, with a touch of Raw Umber mixed in with it, to create a “taffy”, or “putty” color. It makes for a nice surface upon which to begin applying my “image oil paint”.:)
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comMay 23, 2018 at 6:13 pm #622554I used to paint on canvas, but now I mostly paint on primed rigid panels. Unless you want the look that canvas texture gives to a painting, ( I do not.) you might give that a try to see if you like it. If you do want the weave texture, just mount the canvas on a panel rather than stretching it.
I find it interesting how some artists go to great lengths to hide the texture of the canvas with multiple layers of gesso when they should probably forget the canvas altogether and go with a primed panel. No stretching required. Significantly more resistant to damage of the support material as well as a lower risk of cracking of the paint layers, than a stretched canvas The cost can be quite a bit less, particularly for hardboard, for what I feel is a superior surface.
Lots of information can be found on WC and via Google about priming hardboard, Masonite, Dibond etc.
May 23, 2018 at 7:12 pm #622551I am with Contumacious on this.
Website: www.artderek.com
DEMONSTRATIONS:https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1363787
https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343600
https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1431363May 30, 2018 at 5:28 pm #622553Actually, a lot of the canvases that are available online or in the art store are double or triple primed depending on what brand you use. I would always pick the professional grade canvases. The canvas I paint on is sized with acrylic size and then has 2 layers of acrylic gesso. The surface is very nice and I do not put any extra coats of acrylic gesso on it……although many people do. You can also buy pre-stretched oil primed canvas. This should have 1 coat of size (rabbit skin glue) and 2 or more coats of oil primer.
May 31, 2018 at 8:07 pm #622546Never heard of “orangsburg”. Did a google search and came up with nothing.
Is this perhaps “organdy” or “organza” fabric? If it is I’m not sure I’d use something that thin stretched and primed as a support for painting.June 29, 2018 at 7:42 am #622559Never heard of "orangsburg". Did a google search and came up with nothing.
Is this perhaps "organdy" or "organza" fabric? If it is I’m not sure I’d use something that thin stretched and primed as a support for painting.Undoubtedly spelled wrong, though the word defintly ends ‘burg’…it is a ‘light canvas’ more or less…to me, not quite as tightly woven…I was a historical reenactor for 30 years plus, until my age and my general health betrayed me, and I had to give it up…and the fabric is fairly popular in those circles….used to make, typically, small tents…but also used for packs, gun cases, even some clothing…I’ll dig through some of the reenacting books and references I have lying around and see if I can clarify it.
I love modern technology. I just don't want to touch it!....C&C welcome
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