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  • #475391
    Watercollar
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        I’m looking for a cost effective way to make archival supports for oil painting. I prefer to work on stretched canvas and I’d like to prepare a non absorbent primer / sealer based only on acrylic polymer and white pigment. This has to be archival.
        Is there a reliable way of getting pure acrylic polymer/resin to serve this purpose?
        Can I use acrylic binders meant for self leveling flooring for instance? Or other “builders supply store” acrylic resin?

        I currently use M Harding non absorbent primer at £20/litre covering 1 – 1.5 square meters (4 medium sized paintings) at most.

        Sebastian.

        (C&C Welcomed.)

        #851175
        contumacious
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            #851180
            RomanB
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                Rabbit skin glue and bologna chalk is reliable and simple.

                #851171
                Gigalot
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                    I also came to the idea of use titanium white colored non-absorbent flexible, acrylic primer without any calcium carbonate additive. Most flexible is styrenated acrylic resins. They are also highly adhesive stuff. To boost adhesive and archival properties of such primers, I decided to do finally wash with shower of dried acrylic primer to remove water soluble surfactant content from acrylic dispersion.

                    For me, high titanium content acrylic resin is the best flexible support for stretched canvases.

                    Rabbit skin glue and bologna chalk is reliable and simple.

                    Chalk and collagen glue primer is inflexible. Used mainly on wood panels. For canvas priming you can try acrylic or traditional oil primers. Also, chalk is bad whitening for oil paint supports. When it absorbs oil, it will discolor and became brown rapidly. Therefore, a good white pigment addition is necessary for oil painting supports.

                    #851181
                    Watercollar
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                        Thank you for your answers.

                        Contumacious:
                        The product looks great, priced well. Unfortunately by the time the delivery and tax are added it gets too expensive. There are no similar priced acrylic mediums here in UK. I looked pretty much everywhere. Cheapest is £20/litre.

                        Roman and Gigalot:
                        Rabbit skin glue is priced similarly to acrylic primers per volume here in the UK. I don’t mind it being less flexible it’s just it doesn’t constitute the cost effective solution I’m after.

                        I will continue to look for an suitable acrylic resin in the builders trade. There are many industries that use various types, it’s just getting to understand the chemical differences and grades. I’ll post my findings (or disappointments ) soon.

                        Sebastian.

                        (C&C Welcomed.)

                        #851176
                        contumacious
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                            Thank you for your answers.

                            Contumacious:
                            The product looks great, priced well. Unfortunately by the time the delivery and tax are added it gets too expensive. There are no similar priced acrylic mediums here in UK. I looked pretty much everywhere. Cheapest is £20/litre.

                            I will continue to look for an suitable acrylic resin in the builders trade. There are many industries that use various types, it’s just getting to understand the chemical differences and grades. I’ll post my findings (or disappointments ) soon.

                            I figured it would be free shipping to the UK since it was on ebay’s UK website and it states as much. I didn’t notice it was being shipped from the USA – kind of misleading.

                            You might contact a paint manufacturing company in the UK to see if they would sell you some acrylic binder or resin. As you probably know, art paint making companies don’t make their own acrylic resin. They buy it from the companies that make it for the regular paint making trade. If I were to choose a hardware store paint to use as a ground I would likely go with a white tinting base premium grade exterior acrylic house paint, adding a bit of calcium carbonate and titanium white pigment as desired. Good luck with the quest.

                            #851172
                            Gigalot
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                                I would likely go with a white tinting base premium grade exterior acrylic house paint, adding a bit of calcium carbonate and titanium white pigment as desired. Good luck with the quest.

                                House paint already contains Titanium White pigment mixed with lots of filler. :)

                                #851170
                                AnnieA
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                                    I don’t know the answer for you, Watercollar. But I do have a question that relates. How would the acrylic primers such as Kilz or Zinnser work? The Kilz company has a wide variety of products and I don’t know if any of these might be what you need: https://www.kilz.com/primer#/ViewAllProducts
                                    …but I bet someone else will come along who does know. And these are large companies with an international presence so it’s likely the products would be available in the UK.

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                                    “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

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                                    #851182
                                    Watercollar
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                                        I don’t know the answer for you, Watercollar. But I do have a question that relates. How would the acrylic primers such as Kilz or Zinnser work? The Kilz company has a wide variety of products and I don’t know if any of these might be what you need: [url]https://www.kilz.com/primer#/ViewAllProducts[/url]
                                        …but I bet someone else will come along who does know. And these are large companies with an international presence so it’s likely the products would be available in the UK.

                                        Thanks Annie. There are many house paint grade acrylic primers available. The problem with these is that we don’t know their exact formulation. As Gigalot mentioned, like house paint emulsions, these are bound to contain a lot of filler. This explains their low cost per volume. In some cases the “10 year guarantee” betrays the short life of the product relative to what’s expected of an archival primer.

                                        I’m interested in the pure acrylic resin/polymer/medium/binder – the core component of acrylic paint, so that I can make primer to my own specification (non absorbent) and cut costs at the same time.

                                        Sebastian.

                                        (C&C Welcomed.)

                                        #851167
                                        WFMartin
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                                            This suggestion may seem to be overly simplistic, but then….I am a simple person.:)

                                            Rather than attempting to “create”, or “manufacture” some sort of “cheap alternative” to the usual, acrylic primer (incorrectly known as “gesso”), by purchasing the individual ingredients, why not merely purchase a good quality acrylic primer? It doesn’t truly cost that much, and it is much more “archival” than anything you can purchase for painting a house! To my knowledge, it contains the same ingredients that you seem to be seeking–namely an acrylic resin, and a whiting agent.

                                            My favorite acrylic primer is Grumbacher Acrylic Gesso, and it has a tooth, and it is a bit absorbent. My second choice would be Liquitex Acrylic Gesso, also exhibiting a tooth, and a bit absorbent.

                                            If you desire a less absorbent acrylic primer, then purchase Golden Acrylic Gesso. It’s a slick, hard, glossy, plastic-y, and non-absorbent acrylic primer, and it is a great deal more “archival” than any sort of “house-painting” material that you can purchase.

                                            To those who consider using house painting products for fine art purposes, I generally pose the question: It is fine to use those sorts of products if your goal is to have the life of your painting last about as long as the paint on your house, either interior, or exterior. Is that truly what you want?:)

                                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                            #851183
                                            Watercollar
                                            Default

                                                This suggestion may seem to be overly simplistic, but then….I am a simple person.:)

                                                Rather than attempting to “create”, or “manufacture” some sort of “cheap alternative” to the usual, acrylic primer (incorrectly known as “gesso”), by purchasing the individual ingredients, why not merely purchase a good quality acrylic primer? It doesn’t truly cost that much, and it is [I][B]much[/B][/I] more “archival” than anything you can purchase for painting a house! To my knowledge, it contains the same ingredients that you seem to be seeking–namely an acrylic resin, and a whiting agent.

                                                My favorite acrylic primer is Grumbacher Acrylic Gesso, and it has a tooth, and it is a bit absorbent. My second choice would be Liquitex Acrylic Gesso, also exhibiting a tooth, and a bit absorbent.

                                                If you desire a less absorbent acrylic primer, then purchase Golden Acrylic Gesso. It’s a slick, hard, glossy, plastic-y, and non-absorbent acrylic primer, and it is a great deal more “archival” than any sort of “house-painting” material that you can purchase.

                                                To those who consider using house painting products for fine art purposes, I generally pose the question: It is fine to use those sorts of products if your goal is to have the life of your painting last about as long as the paint on your house, either interior, or exterior. Is that truly what you want?:)

                                                I don’t intend to use house paint grade products. As I said, I’d like to find a cheap pure acrylic resin and mix it with white pigment and maybe a small amount of chalk.

                                                I already use Michael Harding’s acrylic primer. It’s a great product but 1L covers effectively only 2 square meters of canvas in two layers – that’s £10 per square m – similar price to a cheaper linen.

                                                Sebastian.

                                                (C&C Welcomed.)

                                                #851173
                                                Gigalot
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                                                    Housepaint has long history of use in Art! Exterior paints do not have Calcium Carbonate addition because because Calcium Carbonate is not fast to water or high moisture content. Interior paints, however, can have a lot of Calcium carbonate added there.

                                                    #851177
                                                    contumacious
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                                                        Perhaps Gigalot can answer this – Can you buy dry acrylic resin in powder or small pellet form then add water to make your own acrylic resin binder? You would only be paying for the dry weight plus simple packaging like poly bags rather than water weight and more costly containers. What would you look for to find such a thing?

                                                        It is no secret that most of the “art” paint makers buy their raw materials – resins, oils and pigments, from the same places the house paint makers do. If you made your own you would know exactly what you had in there.

                                                        #851174
                                                        Gigalot
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                                                            Perhaps Gigalot can answer this – Can you buy dry acrylic resin in powder or small pellet form then add water to make your own acrylic resin binder? You would only be paying for the dry weight plus simple packaging like poly bags rather than water weight and more costly containers. What would you look for to find such a thing?

                                                            No, you can’t get dry acrylic resin in bulk and add water because acrylic dispersion is already made in water solution using emulsion polymerization process. That forms extremely small size micro spheres of acrylic polymer dispersed in water. You can’t prepare such micro spheres from regular acrylic pellets. You can buy acrylic pellets (Paraloid 69 for example) to prepare solvent soluble acrylic varnishes but not to make waterborne acrylic polymer mediums.

                                                            #851178
                                                            contumacious
                                                            Default

                                                                No, you can’t get dry acrylic resin in bulk and add water because acrylic dispersion is already made in water solution using emulsion polymerization process. That forms extremely small size micro spheres of acrylic polymer dispersed in water. You can’t prepare such micro spheres from regular acrylic pellets. You can buy acrylic pellets (Paraloid 69 for example) to prepare solvent soluble acrylic varnishes but not to make waterborne acrylic polymer mediums.

                                                                Thanks.

                                                                I noticed quite a few sellers on Alibaba with acrylic resin in liquid form. Which one to try if any is the big question. Some will send smaller samples.

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