Liquin seems to be a good medium. But it is impossible to have any serious and precise information about its formulation. I avoid this product because of that.
When a company does not want to tell artists what material is included in their products, you can be sure the company is not innocent. Medium are bad-ageing, paints are overfilled with bentonites, silicas, waxes, alumina hydrate, chalk and so on. There are laws which force food makers to list exactly the ingredients they use. I hope that all the artist will one day force their provider to list all the strange things they put in paints only for profits.

Liquin seems to be a good medium. But it is impossible to have any serious and precise information about its formulation. I avoid this product because of that.

Perfectly sound idea to work under.

When a company does not want to tell artists what material is included in their products, you can be sure the company is not innocent.

Generally I would agree with you about this but don’t be so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater – if you apply this rigidly you would have to give up painting entirely. In fact you would have to abandon just about any artistic pursuit.

Medium are bad-ageing…

Many are, yes.

paints are overfilled with bentonites, silicas, waxes, alumina hydrate, chalk and so on.

That is a matter of interpretation, not a simple fact. And if you’re going to go down this road someone will ask you to be specific and name brands

There are laws which force food makers to list exactly the ingredients they use. I hope that all the artist will one day force their provider to list all the strange things they put in paints only for profits.

There is a level of product information that we will never be, and should not be, privy to – e.g. Coke’s ingredients mention vegetable extracts but don’t go into more detail.

Einion

If you review past threads you’ll see that many of your fellow members are right with you on the materials knowledge and craftsmanship points, both are definitely worth promoting to today’s crop of artists and this is an area where sites like this can be of great help, directly and indirectly.

In addition to being a bit sweeping I think it’s a bit harsh to imply that paintmakers all look down on their customers, although I have no doubt it’s true of one that you think highly of I’m afraid. It’s not inaccurate to say the average buyer is ignorant though; and it’s not an insulting word per se. Most buyers don’t know much about what goes into their materials and actually don’t care to, they’d prefer to spend their time learning to use them rather than learning about them, not realising that the two go hand in hand in many cases. But even the knowledgeable painter doesn’t have a full grasp of the topic… in the way that I once read a neurosurgeon describe his knowledge of the brain, not knowing much, as opposed to being completely ignorant like the average physician!

If one takes the time to contact paint makers many are only too happy these days to aid their buyers develop a better understanding of their materials (even sometimes without specific reference to their own product, I’ve received help from a colourman in Daler-Rowney about issues not directly relating to their own range). We’ve seen that here with Martha Gamblin’s helpful input over the years and quite a few firms now have a forum on their site where they will answer questions about their products and related issues. Members who have made the effort to contact makers themselves can often get informative answers, Golden Paints probably being the shining example of this.

I think they should be more modest and try to give some clear information… we have not these information they keep secret.

You’re right I think, some things should not be a secret, within the limits of product confidentiality.

Included in this class of information should be accurate, even-handed mention of the inclusion of fillers – the use of which is far more widespread than anyone will admit because of the poor light in which they are held (due largely to ignorance on the details of the issue I might add, I was guilty of this myself for many years, the blanket ‘fillers are bad’ attitude) – the types of oils and their strengths and weaknesses, and importantly, the appropriate role of stabilisers of different kinds. Because of the openness with which members of various levels can discuss materials here we’ve had the opportunity to discover for ourselves that makers who purport to give their customers the full story might be lying through their teeth, so you can’t win can you?

Today, when they have to discover very sophisticated treatments to stop the ruining of a Van Gogh landscape, the paint restorers don’t tell us that X or Y nineteeth century paint manufacturer was a swindle. They blame Van Gogh himself for his unsound technique!

I’m afraid you’re being a little too harsh here also, I’ve actually heard a conservator from the Van Gogh Museum talking directly about the failing of materials in his work, the most evident example being the discolouration of his chrome yellows and oranges.

Sorry for my strange french english and thank you for reading it!

Your English is better than my French I assure you

Einion

Personally, I avoid all alkyd mediums like the plague, for use with traditional oil paint. However, if you truly seem driven to use an alkyd, such as Liquin, then use it for every step of the oil painting process, rather than interleaving layers of alkyd-laden paint with layers of traditional, oil-laden layers of paint.
Alkyd mediums demonstrate a distinct difference in their drying characteristics compared to traditional drying oils, the chief one being their condition after having dried. I feel it is a case of compatibility. And, I don’t believe that simply “mixing” a drying oil such as Linseed with it diminishes the incompatibility factor.

Oh, and I have used Liquin and Galkyd Lite for experimental purposes in the past, Galkyd Lite most recently. I think they are atrocious, actually, and I could not afford to use them for my work if they were given to me free of charge.

Just my opinions, of course.:)

I agree with William here … hes right if your going to use Liquin then use it as its ment to be used …. or the results might not be that great… I use to think this stuff was great but now I dont use it , its not needed at all if your using good quality paints……

Before I realized how much I prefer using Linseed oil only when I work, I experimented with Liquin on some test surfaces. I thought I’d like the first layer to dry fast so I could get to the next stage quicker. Well, for me this test helped to see I like working wet on wet more than wet on dry, so I put the bottle of Liquin away in storage. It’s been sitting there for a year or so, and it hardens in the bottle and discolours a lot. I also noticed a strong smell, granted you have to put your nose fairly close to notice it.

My own conclusion is that anything that has a ugly discolouring and/or bad smell stays out of my work flow. I’ve found that you can get a lot of progress done wet on wet and so anything that speeds up the drying time goes against the strength of that particular painting technique, and if you want to go wet on dry it’s not a bad idea to let it sit up and dry for a few days or more anyway and work on something else to keep your eyes fresh. Of course, everyone has different working methods and I’m sure there’s lots of fine work being done with Liquin, but I thought I’d just share my experiment results and overall thoughts on whether or not I find a alkyd beneficial or not.

well written FOXFLIGHT,:D I tend to paint mostly wet on wet and have no probs without it! it is my prefered method of painting … I owe that to one of my teachers at school , when it came time to paint he saw my dreaded Liquin , I was useing the Winsor n Newton brand , he looked at it in disgust and said get rid of that stuff its crap, you wont be using it here … he was so right , and really it all comes down to learning how much paint you have on your brush if I want to paint thin I have less paint on there if I want huge thick strokes I use more , its that simple , and way cheaper what you save on liquin you can buy more good paint with….