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  • #986363
    catchafairy
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        I just read an article in February 2006 American Artist magazine, concerning the artist Brook Anderson and his use of oil pastels and oil paint.

        Here is a quote from the artist:

        “I block in pure colors using unmixed oil pastel. I then layer transparent oil paint combined with a lot of medium.”

        And:

        “When I have to mix oil pastels with oil paints, I do it on the palette, never on the canvas, because that can make the color muddy.”

        From what I have read, oil pastels do not dry. Therefore using them in an underpainting is a bad move. Am I correct in thinking this? If I am, then this artist’s paintings will not last.

        Also, I don’t understand how you can mix oil pastel with oil paint. I can’t see how this can be done. The oil pastels are solid, the paint is more of a creamy substance. How can they be mixed?

        Here is a link to the artist’s work:

        http://brooksandersonart.com/pages/events.html

        If I did want to use the two media together, what would be the correct procedure? I would plan to use the oil pastels on top. But would I have to wait for the oil paint to cure before I did this? And would I then need to put a frame on the canvas?

        Any information you can give would be much appreciated.

        #1083594
        LJW
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            I’m sure that you are not supposed to mix OPs and oil. I think its fine to use oil pastel over an oil base, but I’m not sure whether you have to leave the oil to cure or just to surface dry. I believe Pat uses OPs over an oil-stick base. I agree with you that I’m not sure how you would go about mixing OPs and oils on the palette and I don’t see why you’d want to. I’ve just tried mixing Dorland’s wax medium into oil paint and that works well, giving an icing-like thickness to the oil paint. It extends the paint and yields an impasto effect. Jane

            I am a member of the

            #1083595
            laika
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                From what I have read, oil pastels do not dry. Therefore using them in an underpainting is a bad move. Am I correct in thinking this? If I am, then this artist’s paintings will not last.

                sounds like a recipe for disaster permenance-wise. that’s not the way to build an oil painting that’s gonna last.

                Lamar

                Art is life's dream interpretation.
                - Otto Rank

                #1083599
                catchafairy
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                    And would I then need to put a frame on the canvas?

                    I meant to say, would I then need to frame the canvas with glass?

                    Thank you for the information, Jane.

                    sounds like a recipe for disaster permenance-wise. that’s not the way to build an oil painting that’s gonna last.

                    So who will tell this confused fellow that his paintings are not archival?

                    #1083598
                    AnnieA
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                        You raise a question I’ve raised before, because it’s not just this artist who I’ve seen mention mixing OPs with oils, yet all the reasons people have mentioned in this thread for not doing so make sense.

                        It’s a mystery.

                        [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                        [FONT=Palatino]
                        “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

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                        #1083593
                        Pat Isaac
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                            I’ll have to go back and read that article. I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint. I have used oil pastel over an underpainting of oil paint glaze and that works quite well, however, I don’t know about mixing the two. I will check it out some more.

                            Pat

                            #1083602
                            redclare
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                                It’s my understanding that it’s okay to use oil pastel under oils as long as the OP is applied very thinly. I have tried this with a couple of paintings, and so far (after 6 months), all seems fine.

                                In his book “Oil Pastel – Materials and Techniques for Today’s Artist”, Kenneth Leslie says the following: “Oil paint will spread previously laid oil pastel or oil stick in much the same way that turpentine will. Oil pastel can also be drawn into a wet layer of oil paint. It will melt into the paint surface…” He goes on to say “You must be very careful, however, about using oil paint on top of an oil pastel surface. Sennelier cautions against this, because although oil paint dries into a hard inflexible film, most brands of oil pastel can hardly be said to dry at all. Dried oil paint on top of the more flexible non-drying oil pastel is likely to chip or crack as the two layers expand and contract differently…. This should not occur if you use the oil pastel only lightly, in the beginning of a work, to sketch things out… this amount of pastel will dissolve into the paint and not present the problem that distinct layers might.”

                                So possibly, if Brook Anderson is using the oil pastel as a very thin underpainting, it would not be a problem.
                                I’ve never tried mixing oil pastel and oil paint on the palette, so don’t know if that’s a good idea or not.

                                [FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana]Rebecca

                                #1083600
                                catchafairy
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                                    I’ll have to go back and read that article. I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint. I have used oil pastel over an underpainting of oil paint glaze and that works quite well, however, I don’t know about mixing the two. I will check it out some more.

                                    Pat

                                    That is a possibility.

                                    When you use oil pastels over oil paint, do you wait for the paint to cure, or is it just dry to the touch? Technically speaking, what is the correct way to use oil pastels over oil paint?

                                    Thank you for the info, redclare. It seems like taking chances when you put the oil paint over the oil pastel.

                                    #1083601
                                    catchafairy
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                                        I wonder if he is confusing oil pastels with paint sticks which are oil paint.
                                        Pat

                                        I was looking through the article, and it says that the artist first outlines the major forms using large sticks of Sennelier and Holbein oil pastel.

                                        Holbein doesn’t make paint sticks. So he must be using the op’s.

                                        #1083597
                                        starblue
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                                            Then it’s probably OK. John Elliott does the same thing: he shows a OP sketch that he paints over in oils in his book “Oil Pastels for the Serious Beginner”, p. 107. I notice he only did an outline in OP the way a watercolorist might lay in an initial sketch using pencil, not a full grasaille underpainting.

                                            Bob

                                            #1083596
                                            laika
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                                                i’d love to use my Prussian Blue OP for a base sketch for an oil painting, but oil paint over a non-drying medium… i dunno… maybe a very light sketch fixed with re-touch varnish would work, but i imagine that a purist would say no.

                                                i try to remain open to correction, but i vote no. i’d love to be found wrong on this, though.

                                                Lamar

                                                Art is life's dream interpretation.
                                                - Otto Rank

                                                #1083603
                                                redclare
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                                                    When you use oil pastels over oil paint, do you wait for the paint to cure, or is it just dry to the touch? Technically speaking, what is the correct way to use oil pastels over oil paint?

                                                    Maybe I shouldn’t take everything Leslie says as the gospel truth… but as mentioned in the quote in my previous post, he says it’s fine to apply oil pastel over a wet layer of oil paint – “it will melt into the paint surface..” But my own experience with this is limited..

                                                    Thank you for the info, redclare. It seems like taking chances when you put the oil paint over the oil pastel.

                                                    I find that when I use oil pastel in combination with turpentine — applying a thin layer of OP (on a gesso-primed sheet of paper), then spreading the pigment around with a brush containing a small amount of solvent — these areas of the painting dry completely, unlike areas where OP alone is applied. So likewise I would think if a bit of turpentine is used with oil paint as an initial lean layer over thinly applied OP, there shouldn’t be a problem… the OP “will dissolve into the paint”.

                                                    Anyway, I haven’t seen the article, and I don’t know exactly what this fellow is doing. Maybe his technique is risky. I guess because the medium hasn’t been around very long, there is still a lot of uncertainty about its handling characteristics and permanence issues when combined with other media.

                                                    [FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana]Rebecca

                                                    #1083604
                                                    redclare
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                                                        i’d love to use my Prussian Blue OP for a base sketch for an oil painting, but oil paint over a non-drying medium… i dunno… maybe a very light sketch fixed with re-touch varnish would work, but i imagine that a purist would say no.

                                                        i try to remain open to correction, but i vote no. i’d love to be found wrong on this, though.

                                                        This is an issue I’m very interested in and wish I knew more about. The fact that a couple of long-time OP artists advocate using oil pastels as a light under-drawing puts my mind at ease about it a little bit… maybe the key being a light application.

                                                        I have a painting that I did awhile ago where I left a large area that had been painted by applying oil pastel and then spreading the pigment around with a small amount of solvent on a brush, without any further layering of pastel. This area of the painting is completely dry to the touch, not the least bit tacky like other areas of the work. Okay, I know this isn’t exactly the same thing as using oil paint over oil pastel, however Kenneth Leslie suggests that oil paint used over oil pastel acts in the same way as solvent.

                                                        Brook Anderson says he “layers transparent oil paint” (over the previously applied OP) “and a lot of medium”… So I’m wondering if a lot depends on proportions (of oil pastel and oil paint – and medium?) used.

                                                        I think it’s good to experiment (but maybe not on commissioned work or a painting you are planning to give to a special friend :D ).

                                                        [FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana]Rebecca

                                                        #1083605
                                                        biggles77
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                                                            In his book “Oil Pastel – Materials and Techniques for Today’s Artist”, Kenneth Leslie says the following: “Oil paint will spread previously laid oil pastel or oil stick in much the same way that turpentine will. Oil pastel can also be drawn into a wet layer of oil paint. It will melt into the paint surface…” He goes on to say “You must be very careful, however, about using oil paint on top of an oil pastel surface. Sennelier cautions against this, because although oil paint dries into a hard inflexible film, most brands of oil pastel can hardly be said to dry at all. Dried oil paint on top of the more flexible non-drying oil pastel is likely to chip or crack as the two layers expand and contract differently…. This should not occur if you use the oil pastel only lightly, in the beginning of a work, to sketch things out… this amount of pastel will dissolve into the paint and not present the problem that distinct layers might.”

                                                            I know this was posted more than a decade ago, but just wanted to say a thank you because this is the most logical explanation I could find on the www regarding this topic. Everyone says never use oil on top of OP, but I think it could be ok as a gentle underpainting. I’m about to mess with some oils on top of a OP painting that I’m not particularly happy with – it’s on very toothy canvas, and applied fairly thin, so its seems to be worth a try. I’ll also try pushing some of the OP with turpentine and see what it does.

                                                            #1511025
                                                            Keith
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                                                                Greetings all,

                                                                I’ve not been on here in a very long time, however I had bookmarked this forum in my favorites and was going thru and cleaning out some and I discovered it.  I was looking thru the OP section and discovered this topic.

                                                                I realize that it was posted back in 2007, and was wondering if this forum was still active? I had read somewhere that it was supposedly going to be shut down for some reason or another. Yet, here I am writing this and wondering…

                                                                If it’s still up and running, can one still post photos along with written topics? I have read this thread about an artist using oil paint over pastels and it has peeked my curiosity. I like to try and make OP paintings, note the emphasis on TRY. I have been wanting to come up with a way to make my OP’s look like an old master’s oil painting that has cracked.

                                                                From what I’ve read in this topic, when one applies a thin layer of oil paint overtop of pastels it supposedly dries faster than the oil pastels and should crack. Much like applying a thinned layer of oil paint over an impasto, not sure if I got that right I’ve never worked in oils, only from what I’ve read.

                                                                I had decided too try and do an experiment in which I had made a small OP still life and was planning on applying a thin layer of some old oil paints that I have never used, over top of it too see what would happen. So far, I’ve only gotten some base layers done and for the pot I was making, I have some old metallic OP’s that are a copper color. The only problem I am having with them is I had applied some white and two shades of blue for tinting/toning and the copper pastel isn’t covering it very well and I find I may have to make several layers of just that one color. If one can still post images on here, I will probably make a new thread with my WIP’s. If anyone responds to this that is…

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                Keith J. :bye:

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