Home › Forums › Explore Media › Oil Painting › The Technical Forum › Holbein and their ability to mix with other mediums in an extreme fashion
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Pingpongfan.
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December 25, 2015 at 3:13 pm #993666
Using the Holbein paints , how far have you taken than statement ” They can be mixed with watercolour, Acrylic, conventional oil and encaustic techniques”?
It’s often when everything is going wrong that i will reach for another medium and on many occasions the outcome has exceeded my original concept.
Do others find that by the introduction of some other medium that Holbein is a must have type of paint, for that reason alone?December 25, 2015 at 4:11 pm #1244427Despite Holbein’s claims, I would never mix oil paint with any other paint. Oil paint dries in a very complex manner. Even if you use only oil paint, you need to follow certain procedures and the recommendations are always to keep things simple – using the same medium throughout the painting, for example, or adhering to the fat over lean rule when painting in layers. Holbein may be perfectly correct in their statements that these oils can be mixed with these other mediums, but will the paintings done in such a manner have any longevity? Not worth the risk, in my opinion. And, yes, that opinion has no experience to back it up. So there is no reason that anyone else should follow it. So, for me, Holbein is a nice quality WMO that I would use in the same way as the other WMOs.
Don
December 26, 2015 at 2:53 pm #1244443I don’t even like mixing different brands of water-mixable oils. (Because they all use a different method to make the paint water-mixable, who knows how that works if you mix them together>)
December 26, 2015 at 4:12 pm #1244428I don’t even like mixing different brands of water-mixable oils. (Because they all use a different method to make the paint water-mixable, who knows how that works if you mix them together>)
While they do all use a different method, my guess is the methods are very similar and even if they aren’t, I’ve never read any information that mentions that it effects the oxidation and drying of the paint. I can’t recall anyone having a problem in the many years I have been on WC with mixing different brands of WMOs. But, I guess we don’t really know about the long run, so each person should do what they feel best.
Don
December 26, 2015 at 6:20 pm #1244444While they do all use a different method, my guess is the methods are very similar and even if they aren’t, I’ve never read any information that mentions that it effects the oxidation and drying of the paint. I can’t recall anyone having a problem in the many years I have been on WC with mixing different brands of WMOs. But, I guess we don’t really know about the long run, so each person should do what they feel best.
1. Grumbacher said you shouldn’t use their “Max” stuff with other brands of water-mixable paints. (It should be noted that Grumbacher uses a very different method. They don’t add a surfactant, they use artificial oil that is more polar. The Grumbacher method results in sticky paint, I would avoid that brand.)
2. Holbein dries faster than regular oils. But W&N Artisan dries at least as slow if not slower than regular oils. I recently tested white paints and the W&N Artisan white took the longest to dry of all my white paints.
I can think of two reasons why Holbein dries faster: (1) it’s a side effect of the surfactant used to make the paints water-mixable; or (2) they intentionally added driers to the paints because they believe it’s what consumers want.
December 27, 2015 at 4:58 am #1244432The use of multiple brands opens up the possibilities to what can be achieved. Using the material and the imagination in conjunction gives a feeling of building something 3 dimensional. It draws the viewer’s eyes in and it makes them question how the paint has been undertaking. Seducing one’s imagination and at the same time, creating desire!
Then incorporating colours, colours that clash and also those that harmonise, gives the painting another dimension.Again building on that fantasy, Instilling that raw appeal.
For year i was particular. Colours had to harmonise.Using just watercolour was my downfall.
Now the inspiration is generated from how the colors interact and move around the canvas. Do i know If it will be a dramatic landscape or a romantic portrait, well not from the start!December 27, 2015 at 10:06 am #1244424MAX miscibility does not rely on hydrophilic fractions of linseed oil. I fell for that BS too until I read the patent.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5312482/description.html
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5421875/description.htmlEdit: It looks like the US patent office website is down temporarily. the following abstract sheds some light on the composition of MAX WMO:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_gb&FT=D&date=19950606&CC=US&NR=5421875A&KC=ADecember 27, 2015 at 2:16 pm #1244445MAX miscibility does not rely on hydrophilic fractions of linseed oil. I fell for that BS too until I read the patent.
[URL]http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5312482/description.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5421875/description.html[/URL]Edit: It looks like the US patent office website is down temporarily. the following abstract sheds some light on the composition of MAX WMO:
[URL]http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_gb&FT=D&date=19950606&CC=US&NR=5421875A&KC=A[/URL]Thanks for the info. What a bunch of liars.
Whatever Grumbacher does to their paints, they are the worst of the oil miscible paints which I have tried. Holbein is the best. W&N Artisan falls in between (but with a student-quality pigment load).
December 27, 2015 at 6:14 pm #1244426Using the Holbein paints , how far have you taken than statement ” They can be mixed with watercolour, Acrylic, conventional oil and encaustic techniques”?
No. I really can’t imagine any of that being a good idea.
Lamar
Art is life's dream interpretation.
- Otto RankJanuary 20, 2016 at 12:23 am #1244440Thanks for the info. What a bunch of liars.
Whatever Grumbacher does to their paints, they are the worst of the oil miscible paints which I have tried. Holbein is the best. W&N Artisan falls in between (but with a student-quality pigment load).[/QUOTe
I agree with Michael, the Holbein is really nice paint. I like it the best, and I only use WMO mediums, I never thin with water. Jerry Yarnell on PBS has a really excellent WMO series, and he has been painting a long time. I have learned a lot from him.
February 29, 2016 at 1:36 pm #1244449I like Holbein water miscible oil paints also. I’ve mixed them with other regular oils (mostly because Holbein’s range of colors is limited), though it does effect my ability to wash them out with water. Some colors have a bad consistency like their raw umber, which is waxy and terrible. I haven’t tried mixing them with other types of paints. I agree that acrylic sounds like a bad idea – and to what gain? Maybe dispersion colors like Guerra would work though.
It never occurred to me to look up the patent to try to figure out how they were producing the solubility. Great idea!
February 29, 2016 at 4:50 pm #1244446I like Holbein water miscible oil paints also. I’ve mixed them with other regular oils (mostly because Holbein’s range of colors is limited), though it does effect my ability to wash them out with water. Some colors have a bad consistency like their raw umber, which is waxy and terrible.
What colors do you think are missing?
The colors that I really miss so bad that I prefer using regular oils are Gamblin Portland Grays.
The Holbein “Gray of Gray” is a weird transparent gray with a yellow undertone. So sadly it didn’t do what I expected it wold do. Not very useful.
I don’t use umbers so I don’t know. Mixing Yellow Ocher with Black gives the same sort of color as raw umber.
May 28, 2016 at 12:37 pm #1244435Anybodny here have a courage to mix Acrylic paint into WMO? Can you do this job or you are just talking about?
What is the effect you got with this mixing? What about drying time and flexibility of this material?May 28, 2016 at 3:17 pm #1244441Thanks for the info. What a bunch of liars.
Whatever Grumbacher does to their paints, they are the worst of the oil miscible paints which I have tried. Holbein is the best. W&N Artisan falls in between (but with a student-quality pigment load).
lol, I wish there were better rules disclosing paint substances, there is far more info on a paint can from a hardware store, than there is info on a tube of artist paint. People still don’t really know how WMO are made.
Daler Rowney doesn’t even want to disclose which oil they use, stuff like that pisses me off.
May 28, 2016 at 5:13 pm #1244436lol, I wish there were better rules disclosing paint substances, there is far more info on a paint can from a hardware store, than there is info on a tube of artist paint. People still don’t really know how WMO are made.
Daler Rowney doesn’t even want to disclose which oil they use, stuff like that pisses me off.
To prevent any spy to steal their paint formulation!
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