WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Learning Center > Composition and Design
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:53 PM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,504
 
Hails from Canada
comp checklist

Does your composition have:


Balance
Proportion
Movement
Rhythm
Harmony
Unity
Emphasis
Variety


from youtube's 'the virtual instructor' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAPXep8wPts


la
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:21 AM
Tipo Tipo is online now
Member
UK
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 70
 
Hails from Kenya
Re: comp checklist

Is this a list of things to avoid La?

Tipo
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:59 PM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,504
 
Hails from Canada
Re: comp checklist

ha, not at all, tipo - tho, too much of any of them would be .... all things in moderation 'n all

la
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:17 PM
ntl ntl is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,210
 
Re: comp checklist

I read this first thing this AM. Later, in searching for something unrelated, came across these sites:
http://www.seamlessexpression.com/bl...mposition-pt-1


http://www.seamlessexpression.com/bl...d-good-spacing

there's 3, 4, 5, too.
I haven't had a chance to read as I spent the day on my project, but thought it was serendipitous enough to post here.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-17-2019, 02:11 PM
theBongolian's Avatar
theBongolian theBongolian is online now
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,402
 
Re: comp checklist

those are eight things to consider - but of course you can't do ALL of them in one painting.

Something I'm curious about but haven't had the time to thoroughly think thru is how those rules of composition apply to square paintings - the "rule" of thirds for one - not sure it applies to square paintings.

My approach is make the checklist the LAST thing I consider. Otherwise there is danger imo of making a formulaic correct but boring composition.

Viewing public expect a painting to conform to the "rules". They could not articulate or list the rules, but have been conditioned and have a psychological pre-disposition to expect a good painting to conform to them.

Clever use of rule-breaking - particularly blatant rule breaking - can sometimes work for a painting - making the viewer "sit up and pay attention"
- advertisers often use that ploy.

Last edited by theBongolian : 06-17-2019 at 02:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-17-2019, 03:30 PM
~JMW~'s Avatar
~JMW~ ~JMW~ is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Oregon
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,497
 
Hails from United States
Re: comp checklist

I like the tips in this article with the explanations & sample do & don't images-
http://photoinf.com/General/Johannes...ion_rules.html
WC has it (in my siggy links) but the link above has it all on one page..
__________________
~Joy~
Composition Tips http://photoinf.com/General/Johannes...ion_rules.html
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-18-2019, 03:15 PM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,504
 
Hails from Canada
Re: comp checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
those are eight things to consider - but of course you can't do ALL of them in one painting.

Well, let's take your 'nightmoves' piece and check that ...

Balance = visual weight - predominantly dark, but with lights distributed in an appropriately repetitive but not overly balanced distribution, CHECK

Proportion= big/small/close/far - you Could have pushed this farther by making the roads wider at the bottom to give the piece a more 'in your face/going to run me over' kind of way, but you chose a more aerial view, perhaps from an overpass and that's fine, you showed proportion. CHECK

Movement = guiding the eye - streaky/blurred vehicle activity on roads denotes their movement and the perspective guides us into the scene, under the bridge, - top right curve shoots us out a bit, but it also breaks the monotony. CHECK

Rhythm = repetition [to unify] - well yeah, repeated roads/lights, CHECK

Harmony/Unity=oneness/completeness/style - via color, simplification, completeness, style, CHECK

Emphasis= focal point(s) - the placement of lights at the tunnel, CHECK

Variety= color - CHECK

Something I'm curious about but haven't had the time to thoroughly think thru is how those rules of composition apply to square paintings - the "rule" of thirds for one - not sure it applies to square paintings.
It sure does, sure can, surely should, as a general, basic guide

My approach is make the checklist the LAST thing I consider. Otherwise there is danger imo of making a formulaic correct but boring composition.

Viewing public expect a painting to conform to the "rules". They could not articulate or list the rules, but have been conditioned and have a psychological pre-disposition to expect a good painting to conform to them.

Clever use of rule-breaking - particularly blatant rule breaking - can sometimes work for a painting - making the viewer "sit up and pay attention"
- advertisers often use that ploy.
are they breaking rules tho, really, or merely accentuating rules, pushing them, bending them... ?


la
Attached Images
 
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)

Last edited by La_ : 06-18-2019 at 03:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:52 AM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,504
 
Hails from Canada
Re: comp checklist

I'm hoping for additions, corrections, elaborations on that interpretation of the 'rules' - 'cause i'm trying to wrap my head around this comp/design list tooo .... ....

la
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:13 AM
theBongolian's Avatar
theBongolian theBongolian is online now
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,402
 
Re: comp checklist

okay - maybe you can make a composition with all the items in the checklist - but that might not always be a good idea. It would also be hard to make a composition with NONE of the items on the checklist, as in toto they cover a LOT of possibilities.

Something not mentioned is aspect ratio. I sometimes(often) find myself wanting to make a painting of a certain size and aspect ratio - but to do so would mean using a non-standard sized frame. Even though I make my own frames I try to make paintings in standard sizes so they could easily be re-framed if so desired.

For example, in the 1.5 aspect ratio, you have 24"x36". If you want to go smaller the next would be 16"x24" - but that is relatively uncommon. - ie. 16x20 sold at Hobby Lobby, 16x24 is not. So what happens - if you want to make a painting around 16" you end up trying to squeeze your 1.5 aspect composition into a 1.25 aspect frame.

My experience is compromising the aspect ratio to fit the frame almost NEVER works. So you're left with making a bigger, or smaller painting than you might have wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:13 PM
lorianikins's Avatar
lorianikins lorianikins is offline
Senior Member
Atlanta, Georgia
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 133
 
Hails from United States
Re: comp checklist

In addition to those "principles" of design, a good composition also incorporates the "elements" of art such as:
Line
Color
Shape
Form
Value
Space
Texture

I think of "Contrast" as another (implied) element of art; contrast between values, contrast between textures or colors, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:47 PM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,504
 
Hails from Canada
Re: comp checklist

agreed, lorian, and in the detail verbiage in the video it does touch on those as overlaps/details in the design checklists, like using color/value and texture as ways to emphasize and/or vary the piece and being aware/planning/organizing the neg/pos space.

bongo, aaaaAAAaaa, good golly i hate math! can't really speak to that predicament other than to say i've gotten pretty good at eyeballing.

some 'poohpooh' the notion of the rule of thirds because it's too basic, but it's saved my bacon many times on any size/shape as a good, basic starting point and then scooching/resizing/adjusting things where necessary. it's not an exact science for sure.

would that 'math problem' be most bothersome in high detail things like architecture? or where do you find it to be most problematic?

la
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)
Reply With Quote
  #12   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:28 PM
theBongolian's Avatar
theBongolian theBongolian is online now
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,402
 
Re: comp checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by La_
would that 'math problem' be most bothersome in high detail things like architecture? or where do you find it to be most problematic?
No... it's mostly about space. You can usually take a composition you design at 1.5 - squeeze it into 1.25 - or take some off the top or bottom and make it fit. AND the rules of composition will still be in play - rule of thirds, c.o.i. etc. BUT it will not have the same feel - it may seem cramped or compressed. ANd like-wise going the other way - taking a 1.25 composition and putting it onto a 1.5 support - it might seem too baren or stretched out.

So I think using the right aspect ratio for a given composition is important/paramount. THat is something NOT on the checklist - because you can often take a given composition and maintaining all the "rules" make it fit a variety of aspect ratios - but you often loose something in the process - often the thing that makes it work, makes it special. For example I'm doing night scenes now with a lot of negative space and points of light. If you squeeze that up - you loose that spooky, surreal feeling you get in spaces like that - so that imo is an important consideration for good composition that's not on the check list.
Reply With Quote
  #13   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:28 AM
ntl ntl is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,210
 
Re: comp checklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
No... it's mostly about space. You can usually take a composition you design at 1.5 - squeeze it into 1.25 - or take some off the top or bottom and make it fit. AND the rules of composition will still be in play - rule of thirds, c.o.i. etc. BUT it will not have the same feel - it may seem cramped or compressed. And like-wise going the other way - taking a 1.25 composition and putting it onto a 1.5 support - it might seem too barren or stretched out... so that imo is an important consideration for good composition that's not on the check list.

I've started on a piece I reduced somewhat faithfully from an original size of 16x20" to 8x10". Looking at it with this information, I do see what you are saying. Before proceeding, I will possibly move the middle ground a bit to the left as well as slightly reduce the size of a couple of items.
Thanks. I think you just helped improve my scene!
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:32 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.