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Old 05-22-2005, 12:22 AM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

I am not sure myself what you are pointing out. the green lines seen to be a little different to me. The chin on one drawing is quit a bit longer. I still think you are doing a great job. it is all about learning.

Danny
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Old 05-22-2005, 03:43 AM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
I am not sure myself what you are pointing out. the green lines seen to be a little different to me. The chin on one drawing is quit a bit longer. I still think you are doing a great job. it is all about learning.

Danny

You are correct, the green lines are different.. they are drawn between end points of the different lines (these are proportional relationships that should be checked by eye before committing to dark line..).. They expose both the distance and the angle between two points. In one picture the bottom line is used to show the angle of one of the chin line segments. If the proportions and angles were all correct, the green lines would be the same between both pictures.. I'm just using a visual device to make the proportions and angles more obvious.

And yup.. as I said previously.. I think its great too.. Just giving a crit based on a PM TF and I had.. that is all.

And to explain the why:

Based on my exposure to Ryder's book, and the plates I've done so far, its clear to me that there are two important aspects to getting an accurate drawing:

o Proportion (relative distance between things.. this is taught in most drawing courses)

o Angle of line with respect to plumb (the angle of a given line, or the angle of an imaginary line between two important features or points). This is taught rarely if at all in normal drawing classes from what I can tell, but is part of the approach in classical drawing (every time I try to explain this in the D&S forum, I get confusion from folks.. this tells me very few folks know this.. and certainly the 'standard' drawing texts I've been exposed to make no mention of any of this.. I've had to cobble it together between Ryder's book and other research on the net).

2 months ago I was holding up my pencil a lot to judge angle between reference and drawing.. after 2 months, I find I'm having to compare only sometimes.. since my eye has become very attuned to angles.. but it had to come out of very conscious effort.. The whole reason I embarked on this is that I had hit a plateau.. My drawings were proportionally accurate, but they never quite looked right to me.. I wasn't seeing the angles accurately. My eye knew something was wrong.. but I had no method to discover the why. Hence my 'Bargue-ing'..

Just doing copies of these drawings without the proper focus will (I'm certain) improve your skills.. WITH this information you are cutting out a LOT of wasted effort (since all your effort is subsequently focused on developing eye sensitivity to both proportion AND angle). Ryder explains it OH so much better than I.
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Old 05-22-2005, 11:24 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Here is plate 5..

2H Graphite used for setup.

Charcoal use for all value work (HB and 6B charcoal pencils..).

First image is from book, 2nd is my copy.

All C&C welcome..
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Old 05-23-2005, 03:03 PM
TempusFugit TempusFugit is offline
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Wow Richard,
What a feast for the eyes to log on and find your drawing!
Your dedication continues to inspire.
TF
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Old 05-23-2005, 06:24 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Richard this is such an informative thread! Your drawings are looking great! It is really interesting to see the procedures that you are using to learn by!

I admire your hard work and I am sure that it will pay off!

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Old 05-28-2005, 01:29 PM
TempusFugit TempusFugit is offline
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Hello,

Bargue Plate 3-
Focus on- proportional accuracy and correct angles, line quality, applying and building up the tones using graphite, and stay within self-imposed time limit (15 hours).

Thanks for looking,
TF

2H, HB, 4B Graphite on Meridian 90lb drawing paper
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

TF - Wonderful! Your drawings of profiles are looking really great! I love the character of the drawings!

Barb Solomon
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Old 05-28-2005, 03:13 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

TF: Excellent!

Only thing I see that is funny is the chin is too long on the face on the far left.. Just superb.. Nice line quality too!

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Old 05-28-2005, 06:53 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Plate 6a

Graphite setup, Charcoal line and Value work..

11x17 Bristol (Vellum)

all C&C of course welcome!

First is from book, 2nd is my copy.
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:56 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Plate 6b

Graphite setup, Charcoal line and Value work..

11x17 Bristol (Vellum)

all C&C of course welcome!

First is from book, 2nd is my copy.

Not fond of the values in the pic.. missing all the subtleties I have in the real work.. just hate how photography messes with the values.. especially the dark ones!
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Old 05-28-2005, 11:16 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

You are off on the right foot! (I couldn't resist! )

You did a really good job!

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Old 05-29-2005, 03:14 AM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjs0704
You are off on the right foot! (I couldn't resist! )

You did a really good job!

Barb Solomon

LOL!
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Old 05-29-2005, 05:03 PM
TempusFugit TempusFugit is offline
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Barb, Richard,
Thanks for comments.

Yes, I agree the chin is out.
In doing these first drawings, I have already learned if there is a chin, it will be a problem and need many corrections.

Richard the line quality in a few areas on 6A&B doesn't appear as refined as in your earlier work (looks heavier/darker). If that's the case, is this happening during the photography. (I had no idea the image gets messed with in terms of values.) Regardless, as always, they're great.

TF
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Old 05-29-2005, 11:26 PM
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TempusFugit
Barb, Richard,
Thanks for comments.

Yes, I agree the chin is out.
In doing these first drawings, I have already learned if there is a chin, it will be a problem and need many corrections.

Richard the line quality in a few areas on 6A&B doesn't appear as refined as in your earlier work (looks heavier/darker). If that's the case, is this happening during the photography. (I had no idea the image gets messed with in terms of values.) Regardless, as always, they're great.

TF

TF.. you're absolutely right... I'm having a harder time doing line w/ the charcoal than the graphite (all my charcoal work up till now has been value only, no line.. so I get handling to value very well.. but feel very rookie-ish when doing line.. it'll get better as I do more ).. it goes to black MUCH quicker.. I'll just keep going for as good as possible and the quality will come up..

And yes.. photography will compress portions of the value range kinda wierdly.. I think digital is a bit better than film.. but it still is subject to funny changes.

Thanks for the crit!

Its SOOO hard to get them just right!
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Old 05-30-2005, 12:05 AM
TempusFugit TempusFugit is offline
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Re: Bargue Drawing Course, Ongoing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjKing
(all my charcoal work up till now has been value only, no line.. so I get handling to value very well.. but feel very rookie-ish when doing line.. it'll get better as I do more ).. it goes to black MUCH quicker.. I'll just keep going for as good as possible and the quality will come up..


How do you use the charcoal- is there a general method to build the tones? For example HB for light tones, 6B for shadows and lines? Can you even get a very fine point? If you have time for these elementary questions, thanks in advance.
TF
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