WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Town Center > Café Guerbois
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 07:36 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Originality was important to me. Not to do anything earth-shaking. Just something of my own that hadn't been done before. The pieces were still a mish mosh of influences, I didn't make them up out of whole cloth. They were what might be called variations on themes already set down long ago by others, but distinctive enough to be called mine.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #17   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:08 PM
Perry's Avatar
Perry Perry is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,986
 
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by musket
Originality was important to me. Not to do anything earth-shaking. Just something of my own that hadn't been done before. The pieces were still a mish mosh of influences, I didn't make them up out of whole cloth. They were what might be called variations on themes already set down long ago by others, but distinctive enough to be called mine.

Were they your bird sculptures or paintings?
Reply With Quote
  #18   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:40 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,540
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

The element that makes an artist's work stand out... it's "uniqueness"... is not the same as that conscious "novelty" for the sake of novelty... or for the sake of appearing "New" or "Modern". What might be deemed "uniqueness" evolves IMO in a manner akin to our signature. It is the result of an artist's unconscious preferences... his of her handling of line, shape, value, color, etc...It is the reason that someone having looked a lot at art can discern the paintings of Rubens from those of his pupils and recognize the paintings of Picasso regardless of their stylistic differences.

I remember quite some time ago... shortly after art school... I found myself repeatedly frustrated with my work. I would begin a painting with what I thought was a great idea and in my mind imagine it as something not unlike the work of artists I admired. But inevitably, the paintings failed to become what I envisioned and I found myself thinking, "Oh great! That looks just like something I would do!" I had yet to come to appreciate the possibility that what many... most?... artists strive for is exactly this unique signature. My work is in no way daringly avant-garde pushing the boundaries of what art can be... of the New or Modern... but it is different from most any art I see... or has a personal signature.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #19   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:42 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Sculptures-- painted wood hummingbirds combined with semi-precious stones (all cut by me). They're often called jewels of the air. To the best of my knowledge no one had ever done anything like this before, nor has anybody done so again. They were influenced in some ways by Lalique, though of course I'm not him. The gilded hawk head (best thing I ever did), while influenced by Egyptian funerary statuettes, is also unlike anything I've ever seen elsewhere, as is the gilded otter.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman

Last edited by musket : 11-05-2019 at 08:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:01 PM
olive.oyl olive.oyl is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,289
 
Re: Uniqueness

IMO.

Everyone’s already “unique” because there’s only one of us...even if we’re an identical twin. So in that sense, any unique person who creates art can say they’ve made an “original” piece. But about 99% of art created is an imitation, copy, or variation of something that’s come before. Therefore, it’s not really that original. Something truly original would mean it hadn’t existed before. It would be the very first in the line. One-of-a-kind. And then it would be a springboard for all the subsequent imitations and copies and variations that follow. So, it seems to me that we can ALL easily claim uniqueness, but true originality is just too...rare.

When making my own art, I’ll clearly never be anywhere near originality because I borrow, appropriate, copy, and steal like an evil cheater-thief. And when viewing other’s art, it’s not a consideration, either. I respond to whatever gives me a visceral reaction and that means various forms of pleasure OR, displeasure. And it just so happens that I usually find those reactions from the most common, mundane, everyday, run-of-the-mill things because really, that’s what surrounds us. Nature included.

Note: This is the sound of an unromantic.
__________________
INTERWEBBERY
Reply With Quote
  #21   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:14 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Everything's got antecedents at this point in time. Nobody is going to be inventing perspective again. The best anyone can hope for is a variation on what has been done before that is recognizable as one's own work.

It's much easier for me, as always, to speak in terms of music. Let's take a very well known example-- Eric Clapton. The originator of the style of electric blues he plays was B.B. King, who more or less invented bending strings and vibrato, in imitation of his cousin Bukka White's slide playing. And there were many other black urban blues guitarists between B.B. and Clapton.

Nor was Clapton the first urban blues player to make use of what is now called distortion. There were antecedents to that as well, though achieved by accident (ripped speaker cones, busted tubes and so on).

Nonetheless, when Clapton plugged a Les Paul into a Marshall Model 1962 combo amp and cranked it up to eleven while with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, he created a sound which had never been heard before. I remember when that album came out in 66, the incredible excitement me and my fellow guitarists felt when we heard it. It changed the sound of electric guitar forever. It was the birth of what would later be called blues rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkulcvRkd4I

So Clapton was the originator of that sound, which has been endlessly copied ever since by a zillion others (the Marshall 1962 is universally known among blues and blues rock guitarists as the Bluesbreaker).

In this limited sense, it's possible to be original.

I would also say that Clapton's solos on Cream's live version of Crossroads at the Winterland in 68 are original, and unique (the tune was written by Robert Johnson). Never before in my life had I heard anything been played by anybody, nor afterwards, including Clapton himself, to match them. The tone is blistering, the phrasing completely original. He just kept upping the ante to a new level with every chorus. He truly was God that night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF5fQXVZGug
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #22   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:44 PM
Perry's Avatar
Perry Perry is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,986
 
Re: Uniqueness

At this stage of my art making it's like I'm looking for something
in my art but I don't know what it is. Panning for gold....maybe
there will be some gold in this pan....no.....maybe the next pan...and
on and on.
Maybe i'll find what i'm looking for in the next painting.
Anybody else feel that way?

(Musket, I don't know how unique it is but I love the guitar
in Sultans of Swing)
Reply With Quote
  #23   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:02 AM
ianuk ianuk is offline
A WC! Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,916
 
Hails from England
Re: Uniqueness

My current work is very much unique. Trust me, no one else could produce this rubbish.
Reply With Quote
  #24   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:09 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Mark Knopfler has many influences, the primary one being Hank Marvin of the Shadows, though it doesn't show that much on that particular tune save in the cleaness of Knopflers phrasing and to some extent his tone.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #25   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-06-2019, 01:41 PM
La_'s Avatar
La_ La_ is offline
A WC! Legend
Alberta, where coyotes look both ways before crossing the highway
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,644
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry
I don't think about that

[ep: 'Be truthful and let your vision of the world evolve']

when I am painting. I think about color, composition,
value,accuracy, harmony etc.
I really don't know what that means.


When following predetermined 'rules' you step one foot firmly into a box of conformity, figuratively speaking of course. Breaking fully out of that box, that proven success, is ... risky.

Somewhere in the realm between the closed box of conformity and the no box at all of downright freaky, is where comfortable/acceptable uniqueness lives, i think. I've found some success there anyway, if sales mean anything in the vastness of options people will pay money for.

all that being said, there's seemingly always a market for pretty little flowers and landscapes as well as markets for the strangest, most gawdaweful things.

paint what you enjoy, what challenges you and brings you pleasure - otherwise what's the point, really.

la
__________________
_____________________________________________
Pacis, der Frieden, Mir, Shanti, Friour, Paz, Pace, Kapayapaan, Fred, Piersica, Taika, Aman, Beke, Miers, Shalom, Salam السلام, Heping, Mir (Мир),Paix,Ειρήνη,Udo
http://yourstrulyart.blogspot.ca Peace - When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace
Latin, German, Serbian, Bengali, Icelandic, Brazilian, Italian, Filipino, Swedish, Romanian, Lithuanian, Hindi/Urdu, Hungarian, Latvian, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, French,Greek,Igbo(Nigeria)
Reply With Quote
  #26   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:57 AM
EnPassant EnPassant is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,832
 
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry
I don't think about that when I am painting. I think about color, composition,
value,accuracy, harmony etc.
I really don't know what that means.

I listened to an interview with a writer the other day and he said good art comes when you don't know what you are doing. He was talking about cerebral knowing. It gets in the way (apart from basic technical knowledge). Intuition is sufficient. Good art is something that comes through mysteriously. Chasing after notions about 'originality' is a distraction. Like Lucian Freud said, cleverness is one of the worst things in art.
__________________
Materialism is the opium of the people ~Karl what's-his-name...
Reply With Quote
  #27   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2019, 01:15 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,306
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Typical quasi-Buddhist bull.

Different people have different ways of working. Some are methodical, and some aren't. Intuition certainly plays its part, but it isn't the be all and end all. It's just one weapon in the arsenal.

"Cleverness" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.
__________________
We cannot define anything precisely. If we attempt to, we get into that paralysis of thought that comes to philosophers, who sit opposite each other, one saying to the other, "You don't know what you are talking about!". The second one says, "What do you mean by know? What do you mean by talking? What do you mean by you? ~R.P. Feynman

Last edited by musket : 11-07-2019 at 01:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2019, 01:57 PM
ColinS's Avatar
ColinS ColinS is online now
Moderator
Victoria, Vancouver Island
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 13,138
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry
As an artist viewing other art is the uniqueness of the artwork considered
when you are determining the quality of the piece?

Yes, I do tend to appreciate something a little more if I see some originality in the piece. Assuming it is otherwise executed reasonably well. Originality without a certain level of skill can be its own disappointment.

(If I had to make a trade off myself, I think I would sacrifice a little skill for some originality. Funny insight because at the moment I am focused on developing the skills to paint what I "see" in my mind's eye. And it is very frustrating at the moment.)

Finding originality or uniquenes may be a little harder for artists who work in the Realist tradition, and yet not impossible. I can think of a number of more Realist painters on this site who have a definite original style.

The trouble with "originality" is the trap of novelty or cliché. Sometimes I am drawn to an artist's work because of its uniqueness, but then find that they can't evolve their originality in any direction. They can get stuck in their original style for years. This may or may not trouble them. But it must be a bit of a struggle if they would like to move on to explore new ideas, but have become financially successful working with an original style that has become recognizable and saleable among a client base.
__________________
"None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm." - Henry David Thoreau

Moderator Acrylics Forum~~~Reference Image Library

Last edited by ColinS : 11-07-2019 at 02:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2019, 02:18 PM
ColinS's Avatar
ColinS ColinS is online now
Moderator
Victoria, Vancouver Island
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 13,138
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnPassant
I listened to an interview with a writer the other day and he said good art comes when you don't know what you are doing. He was talking about cerebral knowing. It gets in the way (apart from basic technical knowledge). Intuition is sufficient. Good art is something that comes through mysteriously. Chasing after notions about 'originality' is a distraction. Like Lucian Freud said, cleverness is one of the worst things in art.

That's an interesting observation. I agree in some sense. Most of the paintings I have done that I like the best are the least laboured. They were the most spontaneous. And I am more likely to say: "Look, this kind of painted itself". Obviously it didn't. Sometimes there is just a rhythm, flow and cohesion that emerges almost without conscious plotting. But it was never a state of "not knowing" what I was doing. More a state of knowing enough to nudge myself in the right direction.

On the other hand I have many examples of paintings over which I laboured that came out looking belaboured, stiff and unsatisfying to my eyes, as the first line of critical reaction.

That said, I don't think the great painted or sculpted masterpieces of the Renaissance or Baroque were produced "mysteriously" without a great deal of applied conscious skill and thought. And many of the painters of the Renaissance or Baroque actually show the type of originality I was speaking of in my first post. Velázquez is Velazquez. Michelangelo is Michelangelo. Titian is Titian. Caravaggio, Rembrandt, Vermeer, El Greco (especially El Greco), Da Vinci, Rubens, Dürer, --- they each have their own mark. And they most certainly knew what they were about. They weren't self-taught amateurs groping with their feelings and occasionally getting it right.

Maybe occasionally they did. There is something that seems quite spontaneous in El Greco's famous View of Toledo that might have poured out of him like water from a jug. I wish he had done more landscapes.
__________________
"None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm." - Henry David Thoreau

Moderator Acrylics Forum~~~Reference Image Library
Reply With Quote
  #30   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2019, 06:28 PM
Keith Russell's Avatar
Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
A WC! Legend
Kansas City, Missori
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 34,376
 
Hails from United States
Re: Uniqueness

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnPassant
I listened to an interview with a writer the other day and he said good art comes when you don't know what you are doing. He was talking about cerebral knowing. It gets in the way (apart from basic technical knowledge). Intuition is sufficient. Good art is something that comes through mysteriously. Chasing after notions about 'originality' is a distraction. Like Lucian Freud said, cleverness is one of the worst things in art.

I disagree. Pretty much completely.
__________________
Forcing the waveform to collapse for nearly two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2019
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.