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Old 10-10-2019, 11:35 PM
Michaelshane Michaelshane is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
I don't understand why people get mad about anything when it comes to art, or feel they own, or need to protect a "brand," or speak for other expert artist's opinions. Who cares if part of ones process is digital? That is a legitimate media now. It has been for sometime. If you are mixing it with another media (of any kind), it is mixed media.

As for tracing (whether one does that from a digital means, a lightbox, a projector, a previous drawing, or a photograph, you'd be surprised at how many "incredible," well-respected artists have done this to get their realism exactly correct. Namely, Normal Rockwell, to name but only one. Most illustrators have been doing it for centuries.

I'm probably an idiot for poking my head back in here only to get pounced on again, but sometimes I feel like I can't stop myself from throwing my unpopular opinions out there. I worked very hard to improve my skills too. I didn't learn by tracing, and I'm sure neither did Normal Rockwell. I have no doubt he out draws me under a table, but it's not a big deal to overlay your sketches however you see fit. There are no art police. Just plenty of judgement.


I totally agree with you.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:39 PM
Michaelshane Michaelshane is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

When I was young I thought if a person couldn't paint all of their paintings right out of their head without looking at the subject they were not an artist.I think there are a lot of people who think that way.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:16 AM
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Batman55 Batman55 is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadLessTaken
Since I'm here, hidden a bit, I don't even feel that those utilizing the computer to enhance a photo, print it out, use tracing paper to apply the "work" to a support and then fill in the lines with paint or ink or pastel. This what I called "coloring".

If this were the case, then you could say that much of Warhol's work was not art, but merely "coloring."

You could make a similar case for Rockwell, although he was vastly more skillful than Warhol--Rockwell was still known to project and trace photographs, and this is well-known.

Maxfield Parrish also traced from photos he painstakingly produced--at times of his own miniature scale models.

The operative phrase in all of these cases is "reducing needless expenditure of time." With Warhol, it was also a way to get around lackluster drawing skills. In neither case would I condemn an artist who works this way to a "mere colorist."

Even if you trace something, that's not even half the battle. One needs to understand composition, tone, value, expression, variety of line, and of course there is creativity which is another important area for some artists, which has nothing to do with drafting skill.

Taking shortcuts to get around lacking drafting skills or to save time... I mean, is there any artist who can honestly say they've never done such a thing?

Last edited by Batman55 : 10-11-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:19 AM
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RoadLessTaken RoadLessTaken is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

In the world of art all there is is judgement.


I also don't like avocados or NASCAR.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
I'm probably an idiot for poking my head back in here only to get pounced on again, but sometimes I feel like I can't stop myself from throwing my unpopular opinions out there. I worked very hard to improve my skills too. I didn't learn by tracing, and I'm sure neither did Normal Rockwell. I have no doubt he out draws me under a table, but it's not a big deal to overlay your sketches however you see fit. There are no art police. Just plenty of judgement.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:47 AM
ianuk ianuk is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Art is a visual language and how one communicates with others visually, is all there is too it, the medium is irrelevant.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:25 AM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Coincidentally, I happened to watch Tim's Vermeer last night. Very interesting!

One thing in the movie that someone mentioned in passing was about how using mathematics and grids were not considered "cheating" after optics were discovered in the 1600s, but before that, one might consider those "new" discoveries "cheating" when they came along. Technologies have always been tools for artists, and have also been considered great secrets that masters taught their apprentices not to reveal.
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
Coincidentally, I happened to watch Tim's Vermeer last night. Very interesting!

One thing in the movie that someone mentioned in passing was about how using mathematics and grids were not considered "cheating" after optics were discovered in the 1600s, but before that, one might consider those "new" discoveries "cheating" when they came along. Technologies have always been tools for artists, and have also been considered great secrets that masters taught their apprentices not to reveal.
I doubt that mathematical perspective was widely considered cheating prior to 1600, especially given the degree to which it was celebrated and written about at the time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers...atical_ basis

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:19 PM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by caldwell.brobeck
I doubt that mathematical perspective was widely considered cheating prior to 1600, especially given the degree to which it was celebrated and written about at the time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers...atical_ basis

Cheers,
Chris


Why is one technology considered cheating and the other not? That was more how it was presented. Perhaps I worded it wrong. Either way, it's interesting to me that when raw skills are used with other technologies of the day, the words "cheating" gets thrown around a lot.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:36 PM
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianuk
Art is a visual language and how one communicates with others visually, is all there is too it, the medium is irrelevant.
I agree that art is a visual language, but disagree that that "is all there is to it" and that medium is irrelevant.

Art historians, curators, collectors, connoisseurs, artists, me and many others place great importance in medium. How important? Marshall McLuhan who is widely respected and quoted once said: "The medium IS the message".
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:39 PM
DaveCrow DaveCrow is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Anyone who believes medium is irrelevant hasn't spent much time in the art world. Compare prices between oils and watercolors. Then consider that the medium that will better withstand the test of time under proper conditions is the one that generally fetches the lower price.

Consider the words of an art juror who said "Watercolors can never compete with oils."
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:46 PM
ianuk ianuk is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

And I said, quoting philosophers is an inability to think for oneself, which is right?
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:48 PM
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theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
I don't understand why people get mad about anything when it comes to art, or feel they own or need to protect a "brand,"
I get passionate about art. There are people that don't care, they just want to paint pretty pictures and be done with it. I don't have an issue with that, but that's not me.

There is a quote from Martin Niemoller that goes:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I don't feel that I "own" the band of traditional painting - but I do feel a certain call to protect it. If not traditional artists then who? By protecting it I DO NOT mean not accepting other artforms, I mean not letting artists of one artform try and pass their work off as another. - Intentionally or unintentionally.

There is a forum member - a printer - that is chagrined that what is actually a reproduction is "passed off" as a print. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed. General parlance makes no distinction between print and reproduction and his artform is the worse for it. I don't want to see the distinction between traditional painting and digital art blurred. I have no qualms with digital work, I like, admire, respect digital artists -- so much so that I will NEVER, EVER try to pass off my paintings as digital.
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:02 PM
ianuk ianuk is offline
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCrow
Anyone who believes medium is irrelevant hasn't spent much time in the art world. Compare prices between oils and watercolors. Then consider that the medium that will better withstand the test of time under proper conditions is the one that generally fetches the lower price.

Consider the words of an art juror who said "Watercolors can never compete with oils."

So sorry, I thought the thread was about the validity of medium, not the monetary value.
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:15 PM
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

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Originally Posted by ianuk
So sorry, I thought the thread was about the validity of medium, not the monetary value.
although the monetary value is one form of validation.
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:27 PM
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Re: Mixed Media -- not!

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Originally Posted by ianuk
And I said, quoting philosophers is an inability to think for oneself, which is right?
I think quoting philosophers can be an indication that someone has read and considered the opinions of learned others. It's also a matter of respect to give credit by quoting rather than paraphrasing or plagiarizing. So no, I do not think that considering and respecting the opinion of others shows an inability to think for oneself.
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