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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-26-2019, 10:36 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Selling giclees with a few brushstrokes on them has become fairly common now, which creeps me out. Recently a couple of artists laughed at me when I said that a painted-over giclee could not be called an original painting. They said I just don't know anything about art. They were selling these chimeras for $25-50 for a good-sized "original painting." To me, this is just crooked. Just because buyers are ignorant doesn't mean they should be taken advantage of.

But I also think that the great middle class that might have bought mid-priced paintings in the past doesn't have as much money or credit or confidence as in past years and maybe are feeling pretty scared about the future, in which case art is not a priority. So then what?

Also, for me, the race to the bottom is not where I want to be. I raised my prices 10% this year and am selling about twice as much as last year.

I did sell a print recently to someone who, it turns out, wanted to buy that particular painting of mine and had it in her cart but someone else bought it first. That painting sold within 24 hours of me posting about it. Of course, I sit and think what was it about that painting that made people want it so much??? I don't know. I wish I did.

I have seen people selling matted prints and they look very nice. Now I am drop-shipping prints, though, and they do not offer matted prints. I am not making much on these prints--twenty bucks. But I don't have to do anything.

There are all sorts of niches, though, and I think any one of us here can find places to sell our art.
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:32 PM
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RobinZ RobinZ is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Thomas Kinkade was the father of the enhanced giclees that were hawked as originals. My poor step mother was a victim.

That hurt all of us.
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:36 PM
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RobinZ RobinZ is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

I don't think the great middle class is scared to buy art, or doesn't have money or confidence and stats bear that out.

What I DO think is that the younger buyers are not looking so much for THINGS (and that includes original art) or collections and more on fun experiences.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:06 PM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by contumacious
Try searching Thomas Kinkade Original Print (a clear oxymoron to say the least!) on ebay.



'Original print' is only an oxymoron if you think that print = reproduction. It doesn't. Ask any printmaker producing etchings, woodblock, drypoint, collagraph etc - these are originals.


Too many sellers of reproduction prints do their best to disguise what they are selling. As in any business honesty is required. The marketing hype from the likes of Kincade and the sellers of ink jet prints with fancy labels like giclee or 'art print' have done a lot of damage.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:44 PM
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RobinZ RobinZ is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBertram
'Original print' is only an oxymoron if you think that print = reproduction. It doesn't. Ask any printmaker producing etchings, woodblock, drypoint, collagraph etc - these are originals.


Too many sellers of reproduction prints do their best to disguise what they are selling. As in any business honesty is required. The marketing hype from the likes of Kincade and the sellers of ink jet prints with fancy labels like giclee or 'art print' have done a lot of damage.

It's not an oxymoron as applied to Kinkade. You took contumacious' statement out of context.

I think most of us here are well aware of the difference between original fine art prints (which we aren't discussing here) and reproduction prints, which we are.

I fought a losing battle in trying to get people to call them reproductions. BUYERS call them prints. Sigh.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:34 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinZ
It's not an oxymoron as applied to Kinkade. You took contumacious' statement out of context.


It's a little ambiguous hence my response.


Quote:
I think most of us here are well aware of the difference between original fine art prints (which we aren't discussing here) and reproduction prints, which we are.
Sadly many artists seem to be blissfully unaware - especially those selling reproductions


Quote:
I fought a losing battle in trying to get people to call them reproductions. BUYERS call them prints. Sigh.




From a repro seller I came across - "I don't call them reproductions because I feel that devalues them" As you say 'Sigh'.



My background is in an area that required clear statements, unambiguous language and the production of documents that had to stand up to legal processes. Even though that's long past I continue to find sloppy expression and deliberate ambiguity intensely frustrating - which is why I could never be a politician.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:16 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Artists have to direct their marketing to customers, NOT to other artists. It doesn't matter what people who are still pulling prints by hand call their work--or ours. Are they painters selling prints? No. Are they powerful art critics? No. So they can mind their own business. If they want to adhere to some antiquated terminology, they are free to do so. The fact that 95% of the art world is NOT adhering to it does not make us skeevs. You should back off about that kind of accusation.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:26 PM
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theBongolian theBongolian is online now
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
Artists have to direct their marketing to customers, NOT to other artists. It doesn't matter what people who are still pulling prints by hand call their work--or ours. Are they painters selling prints? No. Are they powerful art critics? No. So they can mind their own business. If they want to adhere to some antiquated terminology, they are free to do so...
Harold! That is the same argument people use to justify calling a painted giclee original art.

While I agree with you, let us not be too hard on the OG.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:44 PM
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redfang redfang is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
Selling giclees with a few brushstrokes on them has become fairly common now, which creeps me out.

Those kind enhanced giclees makes me think of the "paintings" they sell at the furniture stores. . . something to match the sofa. But I think that's the trend these days, people want something inexpensive so they can change the art when they switch to a different color scheme. Collectors of original art probably aren't going to buy prints, unless they are hand pulled by the artist, no matter what fancy name is stuck on them.

But printing on paper (or canvas) is so last week. . . everyone is offering metal prints these days.

I'm only half way kidding about the metal prints. They are all over the galleries here. . . and at shocking prices.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:02 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
Artists have to direct their marketing to customers, NOT to other artists. It doesn't matter what people who are still pulling prints by hand call their work--or ours. Are they painters selling prints? No. Are they powerful art critics? No. So they can mind their own business. If they want to adhere to some antiquated terminology, they are free to do so. The fact that 95% of the art world is NOT adhering to it does not make us skeevs. You should back off about that kind of accusation.


It is never acceptable to lie or misrepresent, regardless of the target market. Would you accept a description of an oil painting as a watercolour? I don't think so. So why is it acceptable to mislabel prints?

Last edited by IanBertram : 08-31-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:16 AM
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBertram
It is never acceptable to lie or misrepresent, regardless of the target market. Would you accept a description of an oil painting as a watercolour? I don't think so. So why is it acceptable to mislabel prints?

Etsy shows photos run through an "oil painting" filter as oil paintings. On their first pages.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:03 PM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinZ
Etsy shows photos run through an "oil painting" filter as oil paintings. On their first pages.


I'm not sure what relevance that has to the point. Much of the site has been taken over by resellers buying from AliBaba who wouldn't know an original piece of art from a carrot. They are just the bottom end of the same market as Kincade.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:11 PM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Lets get it clear. I have no philosophical or moral or artistic or any other objection to the creation and sale of reproductions. All I want to see - especially from artists - is honesty. That means you don't sell your reproductions at an inflated price by pretending they are something special.

A while ago I saw a gallery website offering monoprints in a limited edition of 50! There was absolutely nothing on the page to even offer a hint that they were reproductions. Most artists would know of course, but this supposedly reputable gallery was in effect conning the general public by pretending they were getting something special and unique. In very careful terms they even hinted at investment returns.

That seemed to me at the time, and still does, to be dishonest. It may be legal, but it still isn't honest.
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Old 08-31-2019, 02:07 PM
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBertram
Lets get it clear. I have no philosophical or moral or artistic or any other objection to the creation and sale of reproductions. All I want to see - especially from artists - is honesty. That means you don't sell your reproductions at an inflated price by pretending they are something special.
I agree.... however... unfortunately, I think as far as "prints" are concerned - that ship has sailed.

Here's the bigger problem imo:

The demand that the picture hanging on the wall has to be made out of paint on canvas - and be one of a kind or they don't want it - is not so much. Increasingly all that matters is the image and the price - NOT original or copy, oil, acrylic, watercolor, giclee, print, photo --- whatever. Do they like the image and is the price right - that is (all)what matters.

So the concern about truth in labeling is really more babble between artists than it is a big deal to consumers.

That "painting" you bought for $29.95 is really a painted giclee of an enhanced photo. "Oh... what's a get-lee?" A giclee is a blah blah blah. " whatever - I still like it, and it was only $29.95".
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Old 08-31-2019, 04:58 PM
ministerstwo_grafitu ministerstwo_grafitu is offline
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Re: Do your Customers want real art Giclees or cheap "poster" prints?

capitalism is doing to art what have already done to any other craft. Mass production for profit instead of handmade objects.
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