Home › Forums › The Learning Center › Color Theory and Mixing › Other mediums need to get up to the standards of oils in pigment disclosure.

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  • January 8, 2019 at 12:08 am #467226
    kinasi
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        Why is it so hard to get full disclosure of pigments in other media except for oils.

        Oil paint brands have been very open with oil painters, there is a good line of communication. One of the benefits is full pigment disclosure from the large majority of brands, which allows you to relate pigment from brand to brand and end up with hues that are very similar (earths being an exception sometimes).

        But for the life of me I can not convince major pencil brands, marker brands or pastel brands to disclose what pigments they use. Same with the cheaper watercolor and acrylics brands, although it’s slightly better there.

        When asked in emails, they simply refuse to disclose their pigments, or they simply don’t reply to emails that ask about pigment information.

        What’s with this reluctance to disclose pigments. How does it benefit them in any way.

        It can’t be trade secrets, other brands can figure out the pigments in a lab easily. Is it regulatory scrutiny? Is it just lazyness. I don’t get it.

        January 8, 2019 at 3:53 am #758492
        tiago.dagostini
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            Acrylics and watercolor pretty much have this info open, at least for brands that also make oils.

            For pencils it is more complicated because the REST of the pencil formulation is their trade secret. Discover it in a lab? You know that is reverse engineering and can push even the umongously huge companies to their knees?

            If they say to you they use pigment A.. you might think it is horrible because A is horrible in Oils.. while that might means nothing in solid form. They might very likely be just protecting themselves from reactions like that that are so common from the painting community.

            There is a third and final difference… the scale of the companies. Even the GIANTS of paint like windsor and Newton.. are TINY companies when compared to Faber Castell for example. The bureocracy in huge companies is usually a hundred fold larger.

            "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

            "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

            January 8, 2019 at 2:08 pm #758494
            Pinguino
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                There is another possible issue, regarding potentially toxic contents, law, and regulatory compliance.

                For example, California has a list of items prohibited for use in grades Kindergarten through grade 6 (dated 2014). These are useful products that might be dangerous if the little kiddies eat them or rub them over their skin, or get them in their eyes, or whatever.

                Some of the items on that list were widely used when I was a little kid. But then, maybe in my generation little kids were smarter than nowadays. :rolleyes: Some items are obvious hazardous, due to toxicity or (more often) fire danger.

                But numerous art-related items are on the forbidden list (sometimes with unstated exceptions for specific colors). Here’s the trick: Manufacturers were invited to provide info. Some responded, some did not. The ones who responded were placed on the forbidden list by name. The ones who didn’t respond are not mentioned at all. Thus, it was advantageous not to respond, unless ordered to do so.

                So, a primary school teacher wants to have an art session. The forbidden list shows several brands of oil paint, by brand name. Can’t bring those into class! But it does not mention several other brands of oil paint. Gosh, maybe those are OK? Actually, they are not any different from the others.

                The list is not confined to oil paints. It includes glues, and many other art materials.

                January 8, 2019 at 3:11 pm #758493
                Humbaba
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                    When asked in emails, they simply refuse to disclose their pigments, or they simply don’t reply to emails that ask about pigment information.

                    What’s with this reluctance to disclose pigments. How does it benefit them in any way.

                    It can’t be trade secrets, other brands can figure out the pigments in a lab easily. Is it regulatory scrutiny? Is it just lazyness. I don’t get it.

                    There is no need to provide to the competition privileged information, which could be considered:

                    Intellectual Property Rights
                    Copyright
                    Patent
                    Trade Secret

                    Even if you can find out in a lab the components, if you do not own a license, commercial production of a product could be subject to a costly lawsuit.

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