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Old 05-09-2012, 04:36 PM
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allydoodle allydoodle is offline
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Re: Sky set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by japonaise
Jackie: Great demo! Is this availble only through Artist Network Online or is there a CD too? And the surface - before the underpainting, I thought it might be UArt or Colorfix. But, in Demo Step #4, the paper looks more like Wallis. Do you know which brand was used. J

I watched a bit of this demo, what I saw of it was excellent, I learned a lot from what I saw. I remember Liz saying she was using Wallis, my thinking it probably is the Museum grade, as there was no buckling when she added the alcohol.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:29 PM
japonaise japonaise is offline
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Re: Sky set?

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Originally Posted by allydoodle
I watched a bit of this demo, what I saw of it was excellent, I learned a lot from what I saw. I remember Liz saying she was using Wallis, my thinking it probably is the Museum grade, as there was no buckling when she added the alcohol.

Thanks, Chris. It's the "cream" color of the paper surface that threw me off - all I could think of was Colorfix or UArt. By step 4 of the demo, with the sound of the pastel sticks moving across the surface and the texture, is seemed more like Wallis.

Today, on the way home from work, I stopped by the art supply store and got a big flat stiff brush so I can try Liz's under painting technique. I like the way Liz uses the crosshatch/blend method. I don't have any Wallis Museum grade - just Professional grade. But, I do dry mount Wallis which keeps the paper from buckling. J
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:05 AM
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allydoodle allydoodle is offline
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Re: Sky set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by japonaise
Thanks, Chris. It's the "cream" color of the paper surface that threw me off - all I could think of was Colorfix or UArt. By step 4 of the demo, with the sound of the pastel sticks moving across the surface and the texture, is seemed more like Wallis.

Today, on the way home from work, I stopped by the art supply store and got a big flat stiff brush so I can try Liz's under painting technique. I like the way Liz uses the crosshatch/blend method. I don't have any Wallis Museum grade - just Professional grade. But, I do dry mount Wallis which keeps the paper from buckling. J

Uart is a much 'darker' cream, at least my Uart is. My Wallis pro looks very much like what she was using, but hers didn't buckle.

Her work really is beautiful isn't it? I love her technique also, it almost seems (to me at least) to be an approach I could easily get used to. It seems very natural somehow. Good idea to dry mount the Wallis pro, the buckling can get ugly. I avoid anything wet on that paper now, I really hate the buckling and I haven't gotten into dry mounting. Just another step I'm trying to avoid...... Uart works really well for wet underpaintings so I've been using that when I want to get "swishy swashy and splashy"! Let us know how you make out with her underpainting technique!
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:44 AM
japonaise japonaise is offline
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Re: Sky set?

Chris: Wallis dry mounted on foamcor was on a "supply list" for a plein air workshop. Besides saving the paper from buckling, the foamcor acts as light weight drawing board. Since I am not a prolific painter, I just need a couple Wallis/foamcor surfaces, some glassine or tracing paper, and Proart clips for an easy portfolio (this was not my invention - an instructor showed us this method in a class). Dry mounting Wallis certainly adds a couple of dollars cost per sheet. But, to save some $$$, instead of going to the framer, I use a coupon from JoAnn's and get big sheets done on 100% rag foamcor. Then I cut down the big sheets with a craft knife.

I'll let you know how I do with Liz's method. J
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:53 AM
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Re: Sky set?

One of the worries I have about Liz's method, is that the pastel when "washed" became darker, and solidly thick and heavy. One of the things I feel is important when painting clouds and skies, is "fly through-ness" - a feeling of airiness and sometimes even translucency, so that both birds and planes can fly through, and light can filter through clouds. Perhaps not so important with dark thundery clouds, but light thro, inside, and around other sorts of clouds is not easy to achieve, and starting with a very dark base might make even more difficult.

Movement is another issue.......clouds move and change ALL THE TIME - spend five minutes watching a cloud as it moves across the sky; the wind will alter its shape all the time. Cameras capture a static moment in time, but in reality, clouds are NOT static, and trying to hint at the movement means a careful look at how you paint edges.

What you do not want is heavy white shapes which look like they are carved from stone, and would brain you if they fell out of the sky onto your head.

If you guys plan to try out this wet method, chose those under colours/tones carefully. And consider carefully how you will create the top layers to maintain that feeling of lightness and movement.

An alternative approach which does not involve any worry at all about wetness and buckling, is to use Pan Pastels, wiped onto your surface with the sponges they recommend, for the underpainting, sprayed with Spectrafix so that further layers can easily be added. Deborah Secor uses Pans for her entire painting; my approach is to use them for the underpainting and then switch to pastels sticks, since I find the creaminess and softness of Schmincke pastels gives me the ability to swipe colour, with side strokes, across under-colours, allowing something of the under-colour to show thro, giving a feeling of layers and therefore of translucency.

Sometimes clouds DO look heavy and porridge-like, but actually, all clouds can be flown through. This photo shows something of what I mean.

here is another, the clouds seem to have "internal lighting"



Take a look at the movement in this Constable cloud study, in fact, it is worth taking a good hard look at all of Constable's skies.

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/john...intings-191166

Last edited by jackiesimmonds : 05-10-2012 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:09 AM
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Re: Sky set?

While wet-washed pastels do dry lighter, I prefer dry-wash for the first layer/underpainting. I do it much the same way as Deborah does her toning of the paper, only I put different colours for the different masses, and then wipe it into the sandpaper with one of those foam baby wipes/washing thingy. Lying flat, so the dust doesn't fall off. This way it gets into every 'pore' in the texture of the paper. Might spray fixative over it, but usually not.

No buckling, no mounting, no drying time, no change of colour (well, as it is thin application, it gets fairly light on a light paper).
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:51 PM
japonaise japonaise is offline
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Re: Sky set?

So ... today, was my first attempt with Liz's alcohol wash over pastel on Wallis for a "sky/clouds" under painting. This is what I discovered:

1) Jackie's warning about the pastels darkening is very accurate - so if you try this go very light with your color choices.

2) There have been lots of posts regarding inconsistent sheets of Wallis - which I love to use with the caution to carefully choose my sheets. The piece Wallis that I worked on today is from an older (about 3 years since it was purchased) 9"X12" pad. The surface is obviously striated, but I have learned some compensation techniques for that issue. Well, alcohol exacerbates the imperfections, so, if you try Liz's method on Wallis be aware of your surface texture so you don't panic from the results.

3) Since I did not know the alcohol would effect my sheet of Wallis in the above mentioned fashion - you know, that sinking feeling - I walked away for a while and then got out my handy dandy short bristled scrubber paint brush and really worked the pastel/alcohol combination into the surface. It is much much better now, and the next layers of pastel have been going on in the painterly style that I try to achieve when working.

Thus far, this is interesting, but not in the way I had anticipated. And, since this is my first attempt, I'm sure there will be additional surprises.

My copy of PJ arrived today with an ad for Liz's three DVD's. Hmmm .... should I purchase them so I am not reinventing the wheel (??) .... thinking .... thinking .... thinking .... J
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:56 PM
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allydoodle allydoodle is offline
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Re: Sky set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by japonaise
So ... today, was my first attempt with Liz's alcohol wash over pastel on Wallis for a "sky/clouds" under painting. This is what I discovered:

1) Jackie's warning about the pastels darkening is very accurate - so if you try this go very light with your color choices.

2) There have been lots of posts regarding inconsistent sheets of Wallis - which I love to use with the caution to carefully choose my sheets. The piece Wallis that I worked on today is from an older (about 3 years since it was purchased) 9"X12" pad. The surface is obviously striated, but I have learned some compensation techniques for that issue. Well, alcohol exacerbates the imperfections, so, if you try Liz's method on Wallis be aware of your surface texture so you don't panic from the results.

3) Since I did not know the alcohol would effect my sheet of Wallis in the above mentioned fashion - you know, that sinking feeling - I walked away for a while and then got out my handy dandy short bristled scrubber paint brush and really worked the pastel/alcohol combination into the surface. It is much much better now, and the next layers of pastel have been going on in the painterly style that I try to achieve when working.

Thus far, this is interesting, but not in the way I had anticipated. And, since this is my first attempt, I'm sure there will be additional surprises.

My copy of PJ arrived today with an ad for Liz's three DVD's. Hmmm .... should I purchase them so I am not reinventing the wheel (??) .... thinking .... thinking .... thinking .... J

Thanks for the progress report Jan. I like to spray my pan pastels with alcohol as an underpainting, it seems to brighten them more than darken them. The few times I've brushed the alcohol into the stick pastel underpainting it really did significantly darken the colors. I think choosing your colors carefully is important because of this effect, especially when painting clouds. When I have time I might try Liz's approach to see if I can get it to work for me.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:37 PM
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Re: Sky set?

Jackie, both of those clouds photos are wonderful! You're tempting me to do a simple skyscape with negative painting, just start on white paper and build shapes of "sky holes" fading off into the paper. Or do that, reserve the white and then go back in with light tints. I could play with my new Senneliers...
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:59 PM
japonaise japonaise is offline
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Re: Sky set?

OK, I have gone as far as I can with the alcohol/pastel/Wallis under painting experiment, and I'm doubtful that I will use this method in the future. All of the colors are dull - even the lights - and because alcohol enhanced the texture of the Wallis, I have had to apply more and more layers of pastel in an attempt to cover the striation.

It's probably just me ... all I watched was the video clip, not the entire DVD, so there may be some very useful info that I need in order for this method to be a success.

Now, I'm going back to what works for me - charcoal drawing on Wallis or Uart and various mediums lightly washed with water for the under painting. J
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