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View Poll Results: What oil medium do you have the most faith in for permanence?
Linseed Oil and variations of 340 64.15%
Walnut Oil 65 12.26%
Black Oil 12 2.26%
Safflower Oil 8 1.51%
Poppy Oil 11 2.08%
Sunflower Oil 3 0.57%
Other 91 17.17%
Voters: 530. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-17-2005, 08:42 PM
tbezesky's Avatar
tbezesky tbezesky is offline
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What oil medium do you trust the most?

What oil medium do you have the most faith in for permanence? and why?
(as a medium not best binder)
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Old 09-17-2005, 09:05 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

I voted "linseed", and of course this includes "Stand Oil".

Along with this preference for oils, my preference for solvents is plain ol' Turpentine. It is quite compatible with Linseed and Stand Oils.

Ol' Masters techniques, and all that sorta' stuff, y'know....

Bill
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Old 09-17-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

I'm not an authority on the technical aspects of oil paints or mediums. But I guess that I vote for walnut oil because it's not supposed to yellow as much. I defer to Mr Martin though cause he is one of the people whose opinions I really have learned to respect and value.
Judy
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Old 09-18-2005, 05:52 AM
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Titanium Titanium is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

1/3 stand oil to 2/3 walnut oil.
Fluid,eases manipulation,low in yellowing.
Slower drying,more working time.
Titanium
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Heat -Bodied Oil is the vehicle of all Hand Mulled Paint . A very little Stand Oil is needed as medium or to oil out .
Medium is used only in the last coat/s if needed at all.
In the good company of Old and New Masters.
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Old 09-18-2005, 09:59 AM
danwoodward danwoodward is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

I make a glazing medium with linseed stand oil, damar varnish, a small amount of turps and cobalt driers.
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Old 09-18-2005, 10:10 AM
dcorc dcorc is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Personally? - Linseed oil, having the highest proportion of linolenic and linoleic groups within its triglycerides.

One thing to note is that the different choices of different participants here may in part be due to differences in climate - so that Titanium, for example is in the tropics, where daytime temps may be 10-15ºC, or more, higher than they are where I am in London UK.

Temperature has a significant effect on both drying time, and oil viscosity.

Titanium's concerned to lengthen his "open time" where the paint remains workable - whereas I'm keen to shorten the "open time".

Dave
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Old 09-18-2005, 11:15 AM
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Oregano Oregano is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

The temperature issue is an interesting point. I hadn't actually thought that much about it before but can easily see where this would be a concern...

I voted linseed oil, mostly because that's the only medium I've ever used, aside from turpintine. I've gotten to where I'm pretty well comfortable with it.

I did try either Safflower Oil or Walnut Oil (I *think* - it may have been something else) and it beaded the paint! NOT good. Needless to say, I immediately went back to my trusted Linseed Oil!

Cheers,
~Shane
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Old 09-18-2005, 11:20 AM
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

I do not use safflower or sunflower oils. Each of the others are useful in their own way.

linseed : I use it in mediums, and for making my black oil.

black oil (linseed heated with litharge) : the lead promotes faster and more even drying; I use it for mulling darker pigments, but not whites.

poppy oil : I use a little bit mixed with my mulling oil when preparing whites

walnut oil : I use it in preparing my mediums. I also make a mulling oil using Titanium's ratio of 1 part linseed stand oil and 2 parts walnut oil.
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Old 09-18-2005, 12:00 PM
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Robert,

I did a painting with my so-called heat bodied
sunflower oil[I don't recommend this,it was an
experiment]as medium.
Dried nicely and retained the gloss for a long
long time,before needing to be varnished.

Legend has it that in Russia,sunflower oil was
used as the binder,but I can't find a single
black and white example.

From time to time I test various oils just to
see what they can do - Grapeseed and Candlenut
[known as Kukui Oil.]for example.

As 1" squares of hand mulled colour they all dried
well.

The candlenut was especially interesting as it mimics
walnut oil very well,in properties.
So I grew a candlenut tree[origin-Pacific zone] in my
yard just to make sure I could always paint.
In the unlikely event a walnut plague destroys all
of the trees-chuckle.

Now I have to learn to extract the overabundant
harvest from this very attractive tree.ha ha ha.

Lastly,Robert a tip from the painter who gave
the Black Oil information,and who had been
using it for years.[Write to me privately if you wish to
know more.]
Instead of black oil,just add a little lead white to your
darks.It won't affect them[pastelling],but it will enhance
the drying.

Dave to also add on to your point.
Another the reason I use Walnut oil and Stand Oil is
to temporarily control the hard and inflexible coat
that forms with time when using Zinc Oxide in
Titanium White mixes.
Zinc is a catalyst,and this is only temporary.
I also use a panel because of the zinc oxide.

To be frank,the pigments I use are so opaque
and thinly applied that they dry as fast as
Lead White hand mulled in Linseed oil.

The technique I was taught,actually works better
with fast drying paint.

I would be very careful with poppy oil,it is even
after drying a very easily reversed situation,and
can become gummy.
I think poppy was only meant for Traditional Alla
Prima.
That's where there is a ghost to paint over in one
layer.
Later.
Titanium
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Heat -Bodied Oil is the vehicle of all Hand Mulled Paint . A very little Stand Oil is needed as medium or to oil out .
Medium is used only in the last coat/s if needed at all.
In the good company of Old and New Masters.
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Old 09-18-2005, 12:24 PM
Moosehead Moosehead is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Quote:
One thing to note is that the different choices of different participants here may in part be due to differences in climate - so that Titanium, for example is in the tropics, where daytime temps may be 10-15ºC, or more, higher than they are where I am in London UK.

Dave-pay your heating bill!
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Old 09-18-2005, 12:30 PM
dcorc dcorc is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosehead
Dave-pay your heating bill!


LOL!!

Dave
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Old 09-18-2005, 02:18 PM
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Tony11214 Tony11214 is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Hi,

I make a few different kinds of mediums. Each medium is formulated to give my paint a specific handling or optical property I need for a specific task. A glaze medium would be one example of this.

I use leaded walnut oil in all these mediums to reduce drying times.

However, I don't understand why everyone is so fascinated with Black Oil? The leaded oil I make is not black, and I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't turn black while cooking it. Black oil is burned oil.

In the middle ages unrefined linseed oil was burned until it turned black so that the glycerin that the unrefined oil contained would be burned off. Once the glycerin was burned off the oil dried faster and it handled better. The product was refined, but burned oil.

Having to paint with a very dark oil (Black Oil) was considered a drawback to this method of preparation. Also, dark oil was considered to be less durable, have less film strength, because it was burned.

To improve the process so as to avoid darkening the oil, it was later common to wash the oil to remove glycerin, and so refine it without burning it.

The final step forward in modern oil painting was to cook the refined oil with dryers to make it dry faster, but this was done with great care to keep the oil from getting dark during the cooking process. They didn't want oil to burn and turn black.

So, can someone please tell me why now, in this day and age, we are again burning linseed oil?

Tony
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Old 09-18-2005, 05:08 PM
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Titanium Titanium is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Tony,

if you can find a copy of,
The Secret Formulas and Techniques of the Masters
by J.Maroger

pages 160 -163

will explain that between 180 to 200 deg.c the oil begins
to smoke and becomes brownish in colour.
Showing that the lead and oil are combining.
This is to make the Black Oil -- a drier oil.
Which Maroger says is good for mulling all dry pigments
in,save for White Lead.
White lead should use raw oil to preserve the whiteness.
-----------
The black oil is also the other component to make
Maroger - Black oil +Mastic Tears.pages -165-167
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Problem is that on-going research shows that using
Black Oil and the Maroger is not archival,nor is
there any proof that any Old Master,save possibly
Reynolds and the 19th Century folk used the stuff.

[The debate has shifted to Heat-Bodied oil or
Copal varnish additions to oil.]

The driers found in the darks of the Old Masters
are often copper based.
In fact,when asked if lead was found in the darks
the response from conservation at the National
Gallery [US]was no.

Additionally the limit for lead in a drying oil as
an effective secondary drier is something like
1gm lead to 100 gms of oil.You will get this
with the use of white lead as a paint.
So your probably overloading the situation.

Still the use of black oil and Maroger fascinates many
and the tradition continues.

There is also a reference to Heat Bodied Oil and
Pre-polymerised bodied oil,which uses low heat to
alter the properties of the oil for better drying.
Which research is showing to be present in the Old
Masters.

Today most oils,even cold-pressed are treated in
some form before being sold.

Often skill later replaces the alchemy.
Later.
Titanium
__________________
Heat -Bodied Oil is the vehicle of all Hand Mulled Paint . A very little Stand Oil is needed as medium or to oil out .
Medium is used only in the last coat/s if needed at all.
In the good company of Old and New Masters.
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Old 09-18-2005, 10:04 PM
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Tony11214 Tony11214 is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

Hi Titanium,


First of all, thank you so much for responding!

I have a copy of The Secret Formulas and Techniques of the Masters
by J.Maroger, and I have studied it. It's a very good book, but it is also limited because it mostly presents Maroger's conclusions only. Of course, in one short volume it surely can't explore in depth the resource matirial that he bases his conclusions on.

A good complement to the Maroger book would be Methods And Materials of the Great Schools and Masters by Sir. Charles Lock Eastlake. This book, in fact, mostly presents an exploration historical resources on painting, and is generally conservative in putting forth conclusions.

Your point about the high temperatures needed for White Lead and oil to readily combine are well taken, but there were alternatives that kept the oil from burning.

Also, It's my understanding that thixotropic mediums like Maroger's Medium can be made with leaded oil that has not been burned.

I don't recall this subject of black leaded oil versus light leaded oil being discussed here on WC, so I brought it up only to stimulate thought and discussion.

Tony
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Old 09-18-2005, 10:49 PM
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tbezesky tbezesky is offline
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Re: What oil medium do you trust the most?

I had voted for walnut oil because linseed oil can cause more yellowing and cracking, but I would like to try I/3 stand oil and 2/3 walnut.

Although I didn't vote for this, but
Lefranc & Bourgeois says this about their Black Oil -
It is actually Walnut oil. Black Oil does not have a tendency to yellow which makes it a highly reliable mixing oil. When mixed with Black Oil, oil colors develop a more durable, flexible paint film, allowing you to work the next day without disturbing lower paint level.
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