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Old 09-03-2002, 02:00 AM
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scottb scottb is offline
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FOCUS GROUP: Pastels

My initial thoughts:

I've loaded up a quite a few pastel products into the product review system. You can check the demo at any time to see what is there, what isn't, etc. They are under the DRAWING/ILLUSTRATION category.

What we need to do is to continue compiling a solid list of the vendors and their brands If you can find vendor logos/info for vendors that don't have them yet, product images, product descriptions, etc., post 'em here and I'll incorporate them into the review system. If you can't find product images of good quality, product descriptions, etc., or don't have the time, that's okay - just post the vendor/brand name here, and I'll research it.

Also, we need to focus on the rating types for the various pastel-related categories. To get us started, feel free to look at the Oil Paints thread for some ideas, as well as the current list of questions for Oil Paints.

The Current List

Here is the current list (which I will try to keep as up-to-date as possible):
  • Brilliance: How brilliant are the colors in this line? 5 being Brilliant, 4 Bright, 3 Average, 2 Below Average, 1 Chalky
  • Variety of colors in this line (1=poor, 5=great)
  • Consistency (1=poor, 5=great)
  • Pigment Quality (1=poor, 5=great)
  • Blendability (1=poor, 5=great)
  • Value for the money (1=a waste, 5=a deal!)

Cheers.
Scott
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Last edited by scottb : 09-11-2002 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:27 PM
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mmdm mmdm is offline
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I would suggest -

1. Brilliance, with 5 being Brilliant, 4 Bright, 3 Average, 2 Below Average, 1 Chalky

2. Colors Available, with 5 = 500 & up, 4 = 300-499, 3 = 200-299, 2 = 100-199, 1= under 100

3. Lightfastness or permanence (might be hard to verify)

4. Value, meaning are they worth what they cost, rather they are cheap or expensive. 5= well worth the price(or more than worth it) , 4= good value, 3= average value, 2 = poor value (not worth the price, 1= very poor value (don't buy them )

Things that would be helpful to know but that can't be rated as good-bad would be softness/hardness, shape (square or round, and diameter), whether half sticks and whole sticks are available, and whether the sticks are paper wrapped.
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Old 09-04-2002, 12:25 AM
kck kck is offline
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Post Softness rating

dakotapastels.com has offered the following comparison of soft pastels, rating from the softest on:

1. Schmincke
2. Great American
3. Sennelier
4. Unison
5. Diane Townsend
6. Mount Vision
7. Girault
8. Rowney
9. Grumbacher
10. Art Spectrum
11. Rembrandt
12. Winsor & Newton
13. Holbein
14. Maimeri
15. Faber-Castell Polychromos
16. Nupastel
17. Cretacolor

Regarding Pastel Pencils:
1. Faber-Castell Pitt 2. Carbothello 3. Brutnzeel 4. Derwent 5. Conte 6. Cretacolor

Food for thought. Talk amongst yourselves...
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Old 09-04-2002, 09:39 AM
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scottb scottb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mmdm
1. Brilliance, with 5 being Brilliant, 4 Bright, 3 Average, 2 Below Average, 1 Chalky


Good one.

Quote:

2. Colors Available, with 5 = 500 & up, 4 = 300-499, 3 = 200-299, 2 = 100-199, 1= under 100


This is a factual piece of information about the product, and not really something we can ask people to rate. Of course, we could ask them to rate the "color variety" in the line from 1-5.

Quote:

3. Lightfastness or permanence (might be hard to verify)


In oil paints, this varies from one hue to the next, which makes it impossible to rate. I assume it is the same with pastels.

Quote:
Things that would be helpful to know but that can't be rated as good-bad would be softness/hardness, shape (square or round, and diameter), whether half sticks and whole sticks are available, and whether the sticks are paper wrapped.

I agree - that's why I try to find product descriptions that are as detailed as possible - tough sometimes, as most of the manufacturer's web sites are pathetic. Which leaves me with the retailer's web sites, which is a bit better, but still ...

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:32 PM
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jackiesimmonds jackiesimmonds is offline
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Scott - it might also be good to talk about pastel supports. Lots of people new to pastels do not realise that there are various different surfaces one can work on, and white paper is actually the least easy! I don't know if this owuld be appropriate for this kind of thread, but thought I would mention it.

If I can be of any help, do let me know. I have worked with pastels for about 25 years, and my images are on some of the Winsor and Newton boxes! There are, however, far fewer manufacturers of pastels here in the UK, and you also have different papers etc, so perhaps I wouldn't be as useful as an experienced US pastellist.

Jackie.
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Old 09-06-2002, 02:31 PM
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Pastel supports will be in another category - in this particular category, we are focusing on just the actual pastel medium itself.

Cheers.
Scott
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Old 09-08-2002, 05:26 PM
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I've updated the first post in this thread to show the latest rating question list for pastels - thoughts?
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Old 09-09-2002, 12:12 PM
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I've had another thought that might be helpful, but I'm not sure what to call it. Consistency of texture throughout all colors, maybe? For instance, I have a set of Senneliers which is always advertised as being very soft and buttery, which most of them are, BUT a few of the colors in my set are so hard they scratch the paper and are virtually unusable. On the other hand, I have a very old large set of Grumbachers which are a harder pastel than the Senneliers, but they are a consistent texture throughout the line with very little if any difference in the softness between colors. They would get a much better consistency rating from me. I sure wish Grumbacher still made these big sets.
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:22 AM
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AriadneArts AriadneArts is offline
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Melisa, you've hit on something that I've often complained about. I find, especially the darkest colors in Sennelier are often gritty and scratchy, kind of be-lying their "very soft" description. However, Schminke's are nice and smooth and also very very soft.
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:39 AM
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I've updated the list at the top to reflect "Consistency".
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Old 09-13-2002, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mmdm


4. Value, meaning are they worth what they cost, rather they are cheap or expensive. 5= well worth the price(or more than worth it) , 4= good value, 3= average value, 2 = poor value (not worth the price, 1= very poor value (don't buy them )


I think it might still be interesting to know (at least for me, but i'm sure i'm not the only one here for whom money is a big issue) to know if they are cheap or expensive, regardless of wether they are worth it
i think those are two different things, both important
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Old 09-13-2002, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koert


I think it might still be interesting to know (at least for me, but i'm sure i'm not the only one here for whom money is a big issue) to know if they are cheap or expensive, regardless of wether they are worth it
i think those are two different things, both important

Unfortunately, whether it is expensive or not isn't something that can be measured on a scale of 1 to 5. It would skew the results. Just because something would be rated a "1", doesn't mean it is a bad product. Likewise, if something is a 5 in terms of expensiveness, it doesn't mean it is a great product. That's how we came up with Value for the Money.
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Old 10-05-2002, 06:44 PM
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TeAnne TeAnne is offline
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In Australia we have Swan Stabilo CarbOthello soft pastel pencils. I dont have all the colours but some that I have are rated with a star. (eg
Pale Blue # 1400/435 has *****
Crimson Red # 1400/330 has **
Sky Blue # 1400/450 has *** etc.

Will this be any good Scott? I can make up a list of what I have.

AND I just found this on the website.


Pastel chalks of a different kind

Pastel colors are beautifully refreshing and expressive. With CarbOthello, the technique is easier and cleaner. Convince yourself.

Practical: Pastel crayon in pencil form
Dry & Dusty: The stroke, like charcoal or chalk
Brilliant: High brilliance and covering power, even on dark backgrounds
Effective: Ideal for dry mixing and blending
Interesting: Can be painted with water
Powerful: High light-fastness and color brilliance
Advisable: Treating with a fixative
Clear: Asterisks (max. 5) denote the light-fastness on each pencil
Strong: Lead diameter of 4,2 mm
Available: in 60 colors

http://www.stabilo.co.uk/home.htm
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Old 10-12-2002, 05:18 PM
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GeraldineNesbitt GeraldineNesbitt is offline
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Not sure if I'm on the right track, but I find that Senellier are beautiful to work with and much softer and easier than unison or Windsor & Newton
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Old 10-12-2002, 05:20 PM
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GeraldineNesbitt GeraldineNesbitt is offline
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An addition, only one down side of Senellier, I wish they named ther colours rather than numbering, for a beginner I think it would be more informative
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