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Old 08-29-2002, 01:05 AM
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scottb scottb is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by robinsn

Hmmmm. Perhaps we are talking about different things. I'm referring to seeing the entire review text listed one after the other (like Amazon). All I can find is a list of reviewer, date, summary, and rating for each review. But to read them you have to click on them one at a time. Is there something else I'm missing?

Ah, I see. No, that does not currently exist. But I can add it pretty easily ...
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 04:28 AM
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scott, went to submit a response to the list and found it easy to do.

question.....some mfg's have more than one "line" of paint that they offer, student,artist,professional. Should that not be noted as to what we are reviewing?
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Old 08-29-2002, 07:17 AM
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Titanium Titanium is offline
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Oh boy,this is getting complicated.

Could this not be simplified to stating that
oil paint is simply - pigment and oil.

That some companies modify the paint so
that every tube behaves the same.

What your looking for is the pigment's
individual quality - opaque,translucent,
,drying speed and so on.

When you get into oily,creamy,whatever,
your looking at Personal Taste.

You should be looking at how much pigment
you get and does it follow it's own properties.
Also if you are willing to use Safflower as a
binder.

Yellow Ochre and Ultramarine Blue are problem
pigments,with just oil they give poor brushing
qualities as they age in the tube.You have to
add fillers to modify this.
You can have great creamyor stiff paint,but no covering
power.

The best paints are just pigment and oil with
little or no fillers[modifiers],no driers and preferably
the cleanest colour quality.
You have to make adjustments for the individual
paint handling qualities.
They cost.There is no cheap way out,no bargain
for your money.

You are not supposed to use Student paint to sell
professionally,no matter what a Commercial Paint
company may encourage.
Professional painting requires Professionally prepared
materials.

Hobbyist,Sunday and Student painters can do whatever
they wish,as long as they are not selling.
Titanium
__________________
Heat -Bodied Oil is the vehicle of all Hand Mulled Paint . A very little Stand Oil is needed as medium or to oil out .
Medium is used only in the last coat/s if needed at all.
In the good company of Old and New Masters.
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Old 08-29-2002, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nicoletta
scott, went to submit a response to the list and found it easy to do.

question.....some mfg's have more than one "line" of paint that they offer, student,artist,professional. Should that not be noted as to what we are reviewing?

Each "line" of paint would be one individual item in the review system, so they would all be eligible for their own reviews.

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Titanium
Oh boy,this is getting complicated.

Could this not be simplified to stating that
oil paint is simply - pigment and oil.

That some companies modify the paint so
that every tube behaves the same.

What your looking for is the pigment's
individual quality - opaque,translucent,
,drying speed and so on.


Have you seen the latest demo? This sounds close to where we are now ...

Cheers.
Scott
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B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 10:55 AM
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Another update. I've added another test item (Schminke's Mussini Oils).

Also, check the item detail page for Talen's Rembrandt Oils. You can see the product attachment feature in action.

Cheers.
Scott
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B. Scott Burkett
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 11:08 AM
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Another update.

On the Rembrandt item details page, you can also now see the use of "custom attributes". Look below the snapshot ratings on the left. There, you'll see a simple attribute I've added, which is the "Grade" of the paint.

I've also added Grumbacher Pre-Tested and Academy oils to the demo.
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:31 PM
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Titanium Titanium is offline
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ScottB,

apologies,I would be a tick in your butt,so after
this I will stop.

Try it like this -

Commercial Tube Company X.
Professional Grade .

Colour/Pigment/Hue -
Example - Mars Red,Iron Oxide Red,synthetic Iron Oxide,
Indian Red [ all the same pigment ]

Opacity - Opaque [ thinnest coat applied to a white canvas]
then there is a draw out for purity and what do they call
it again the colour that shows.

___________________________

Does not matter which Company you use.The performance
should be the same.Pigment + drying Linseed Oil.

The commercial companies can then battle out just who
machine or stone mills/mulls well or is underbound/overbound.

Apologies again.
Titanium
__________________
Heat -Bodied Oil is the vehicle of all Hand Mulled Paint . A very little Stand Oil is needed as medium or to oil out .
Medium is used only in the last coat/s if needed at all.
In the good company of Old and New Masters.
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:47 PM
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scottb scottb is offline
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Titanium - no apologies necessary. You have to do a lot more than that to become a tick in my butt.

You have some good thoughts - I need to go back and digest it all. Perhaps Randy and the others can expand on what you've posted.

The trick is here is still to continue refining our rating questions (if they need to be further refined), to ensure that we present solid, broad, subjective criteria to each product. What you have posted is excellent information - I'm just struggling to try and encapsulate it all subjectively, in a rating scheme. That's all.

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 12:50 PM
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Another update ...

I've spent the past few hours loading up some more Oil Paint products and vendors. Still work to be done, but it is looking good. There are now over 40 different products, including Old Holland, Sennelier, Pebeo, Daniel Smith, Holbein, and just for Randy, BLOCKX.

I've also create a new category called "Oil Sticks" - I feel this is something that is better addressed in a separate category. As far as the Genesis paints go, we will probably need to create a separate category for so-called "heat-set oils".

Another link to the demo here:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Products

Remember, any reviews that you post now will be erased before we go into production, so feel free to play around some.

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"

Last edited by scottb : 08-29-2002 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 08-29-2002, 05:01 PM
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Latest update ...

We are now up to 46 items in the oil paint category. Wow. I have been scavenging the net all afternoon to try and find even the most obscure brands. If you know of one I've missed, use the "suggest an item" link and provide what info you can and I'll take a look. If the vendor isn't in our database, you'll have to suggest the vendor first, though.

Also, I've added 2 new custom attributes for oil paints:

AP Seal?
CL Seal?

These, of course, are the ASTM D 4236 Toxicity labels (AP = approved/non-toxic, CL=Non-toxic, but caution label!)

I have gone back through and updated all the items for the new attributes, but there are in nonetheless.

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Titanium
Could this not be simplified to stating that oil paint is simply - pigment and oil.

That some companies modify the paint so that every tube behaves the same.

What your looking for is the pigment's individual quality - opaque,translucent, ,drying speed and so on.

When you get into oily,creamy,whatever, your looking at Personal Taste.

You should be looking at how much pigment you get and does it follow it's own properties. Also if you are willing to use Safflower as a binder.

Titanium - You are extremely knowledgeable in this area and I definitely see your point. But I think that the idea IS "Personal Taste."

As an analogy that I hope will demonstrate my idea on this - Take movies, for instance. If you go to imdb.com you can see a similar system. Movied are rated between 1 and 10. "I liked it" or "I hated it" or "I loved it", 6 stars or 1 star or 10 stars. It's personal opinion. If 9000 people rated a movie and the average is 9 out of 10, it probably means it's not a terrible movie. If 9000 people voted and it averaged 1 star, you might want to wait till it gets on tv.

When most people just want to see a movie, they probably don't care if they used an Arriflex camera or Panavision, or whether the negatives were Kodak 5293 or SFX200/Fuji. To a movie pro, these might mean something as to the quality of the movie, but not to some guy with his date that just want to see a movie that doesn't stink. Know what I mean?

So I'm not saying that your criteria is not valid, but I think the personal opinion will mean more to more people. If you rated pigment PBk11 as the best thing since sliced bread, it wouldn't mean a thing to me even though it is more precise by far. But when I want to go buy a tube of Mars Brown, how does that help me decide which one to buy? (I had to look up the pigment for mars brown)

Quote:
Does not matter which Company you use.The performance should be the same.Pigment + drying Linseed Oil.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't different companies vary a great deal in the use of that pigment, for instance, how well they grind it, what quality (and type) of oil they use, do they add resin, how much pigment do they put in and in what ratio to the oil, do they overheat the oil in processing, do they add fillers, do they use dirty bins (or whatever they mix the paint in), and how well do they mix the paint before putting it in tubes?
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My Temp Art Gallery

Last edited by robinsn : 08-29-2002 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 08-29-2002, 08:37 PM
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Just a thought - would it make sense to split the so-called "student" grade paints away and put them into their own category?

From a rating/review standpoint, obviously W&N Winton Oils aren't going to hold a candle to Old Holland. Old Holland might rate a 5/5, while Winton Oils rate a 1/5. However, Winton might get a 5/5 if it were in a category with other student grade paints.

Thoughts?

Cheers.
Scott
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"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing Copal!"
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Old 08-29-2002, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottb
I've spent the past few hours loading up some more Oil Paint products and vendors. Still work to be done, but it is looking good. There are now over 40 different products, including Old Holland, Sennelier, Pebeo, Daniel Smith, Holbein, and just for Randy, BLOCKX.
LOL! I saw your review - you really know your paints!

You've been quite busy. I'll go put a couple reviews in and see how it works.
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My Temp Art Gallery
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Old 08-29-2002, 09:04 PM
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When you put it in the perspective of comparing with other products in the same category, yes, it might make sense to seperate them. OTOH, if someone is wanting to buy oil paint, it might also make sense for Winton to be 1 and OH be 5 in the same category. Maybe the student will decide to buy the good stuff and improve their art!
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My Temp Art Gallery

Last edited by robinsn : 08-29-2002 at 09:07 PM.

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