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  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 09-26-2006, 07:20 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Murray is not on line at the moment..so I’ll tell you what I think I know!

The H means hard and B means black. H pencils, because they are hard, leave less graphite on the paper, so are lighter. They are often used to glaze over the B pencils to give a greater depth of tone.

B pencils are softer, so leave more graphite on the paper, and so are darker. F means Fine Point, and it ‘s a very hard pencil - easy to keep sharp, but overall a bit too hard for general drawing. The more Hs, the harder it is (so a 6 H is harder than a 2H) -Careful not to press too hard as it can tear the paper!

HB is kind of in the middle, though for drawing, its still reasonably hard - and the more Bs it has, the softer it is - so the 9B is the softest and the darkest. We have them in the UK…not sure what you have in the US.

There are no hard and fast rules as such…try them all…you’ll soon find a good combination…generally speaking if you want to combine two grades use the H over the B, because it’s harder to do the other way round, because the H grades contain clay!

Hope that helps!
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Old 09-26-2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Ta Dee,
Am wondering about layering really, when to do it, why and how, suppose it's trial and error. Noticed Murrays sample showed alternating layering with 4B and 2H up to 5 times, reason for doing this is????
From
Sunny Auckland New Zealand
Enjoy
Les
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Old 09-26-2006, 09:04 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Les...as I don't know for sure, I can only guess that the H blended and glazed the B but left it a little grey because of the clay content...so the B completed the sandwich and got rid of the grey! We each have our own ways of achieving tone...but in the beginning it's easier to follow the tutor!
Why don't you try it yourself and see what happens first hand!
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Old 09-26-2006, 09:59 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Ta Dee
Yup, try and chuck
What paper do you use?
Have to pop up the Town now, so will ride the bike and collapse after, suddenly got very warm here and spring just started.
Les
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:15 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

I like Bristol Board...but also use heavy Cartridge paper or any smooth surfaced paper with a little tooth that I can lay my hands on! For practice pieces I'm not too fussy - it's good to try a variety because you get the experience of trial and sometimes error...which is a good learning tool! I bought an expensive pad of Rising Stonehenge....only to discover I didn't like it at all!
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:18 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Hi!

Murray, just wanted to say I'm working on my pitcher but don't have enough to post yet, so I will post a partial, tomorrow.

Suzi, you kittens are looking cute!
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:23 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Striver
Murray, good day
Perhaps a few words on, how and when you use the various pencils, F-H-HB-B. When they are combined and why like a HB over a B, glazing with a hard on soft? and whatever. I suddenly have a handful of pencils. what to do with them all, YES draw draw draw. Shade with Sharp point or side to fill the tooth or glide over, oh the pain of thinking it out. So perhaps a few general pointers.
Les


ohhh...the pain of answering all your questions!!

Having all those pencils and using them is pretty much experimental, to me anyway. As I stated in my opening post, I have 2 sets of pencils ranging from 9h to 9b and I bet I have yet to use half of them. If you look at my "layering" examples you will see how laying a harder lead over a softer one will actually blend out and darken the previous layer. For someone who doesn't have a variety of pencil grades, this is a good way to build up darker values. Where and when to use this method is up to you. You could just use a softer lead pencil to get the darker values. As far as shading goes, I like to use the side of the pencil when trying to cover bigger areas (see the background of my saddle drawing in the opening post). A sharp or rounded end of the pencil is good for smaller areas and detail work. A word of warning though. If you are using a hard lead pencil to shade make sure you use a light touch or shade on it's side. Shading with hard lead pencil on it's point may dent the paper and graphite will have a hard time getting into that area.

Hope this has answered your questions


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Last edited by artdude : 09-27-2006 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:26 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlelevier
Hi!

Murray, just wanted to say I'm working on my pitcher but don't have enough to post yet, so I will post a partial, tomorrow.

Suzi, you kittens are looking cute!


Look forward to seeing your glass pitcher Mary!!

THANKS for stepping in Dee!



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Old 09-27-2006, 02:09 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Mary, I cannot wait to see what you have done...

I took the tree a step further...I must say I am so surprised it keeps looking better and better - I think-... some more 4b, 6b, kneadable eraser...


I started a new one for this class, one of the references given by Murray...
I printed it out in grayscale but cannot post that... I outlined the leaves fromthe outside with 6b, then went for the darker spots in the flower with 4b, 3b, then b, then hb and h... Is that the idea? I can start over, still...


Murray, thank you, you are a wet canvas hero
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Old 09-27-2006, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frieda L
Mary, I cannot wait to see what you have done...

I took the tree a step further...I must say I am so surprised it keeps looking better and better - I think-... some more 4b, 6b, kneadable eraser...


I started a new one for this class, one of the references given by Murray...
I printed it out in grayscale but cannot post that... I outlined the leaves fromthe outside with 6b, then went for the darker spots in the flower with 4b, 3b, then b, then hb and h... Is that the idea? I can start over, still...


Murray, thank you, you are a wet canvas hero


WOW!...frieda!...these both look great!
The tree is has a lot more depth in it now!
Great start with the flowers!
The layering is turning out nicely
If the layering is working for you then keep going!
This is all about personal prefference, so feel free to
change it up if you want



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Old 09-27-2006, 03:37 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

A big revelation is that I can knowingly put down some 6b, and then if I want to use some 4b next to it, I know it will be less dark, and a 2b will be lighter still...it is like working with colours, a red pencil will paint red, blue will turn out blue... This is incredible.
I am aware this sound really dumb... you are all going duh... but this was a revelation for me in the last few days...before it had a lot to do with luck, and very sloooolwy building up some darks. Now, with the value scale, and Murrays tips, I can just shoot for the right one right away.
It will still take lots of practise...
frieda
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:20 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Heh Frieda, Ive loads of dumb questions, so please state what you find, I think we need the obvious pointed out sometimes, especially on new stuff. Frankly at my age i do not have the time ahead of me me to find out as i go along, so any short cuts simple explained help. And isnt this why this is called the classroom, for learning of course.
Enjoy
Les
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Old 09-27-2006, 05:18 PM
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Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Frieda - that is a major jump from the first post. We all know we should go darker but it is hard to do, that is what this lesson is all about.
I am posting the line drawing and now will let it set for a while to see where I need to change anything before going on to shading. I drew it all with a 4B, but had to make it very dark in the scan to show the light lines. It wouldn't show at all if I didn't doctor it at this stage. If you see anything I should correct, please tell me. I can already see that the bottom lip is way out of shape. I was standing a foot or so above him when I took the photo, so lots of hair is showing.

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Old 09-27-2006, 06:24 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Striver
Heh Frieda, Ive loads of dumb questions, so please state what you find, I think we need the obvious pointed out sometimes, especially on new stuff. Frankly at my age i do not have the time ahead of me me to find out as i go along, so any short cuts simple explained help. And isnt this why this is called the classroom, for learning of course.
Enjoy
Les



Les, why don't you post a drawing (& refference pic) and join the class?
We can then go from there.
It can be tough explaining something without it
relating to a drawing that's being worked on.
Think of it as "on the job training"


Murray
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Old 09-27-2006, 06:28 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Basic 102: Class 8 - The "Dark" Side of Drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by frieda L
A big revelation is that I can knowingly put down some 6b, and then if I want to use some 4b next to it, I know it will be less dark, and a 2b will be lighter still...it is like working with colours, a red pencil will paint red, blue will turn out blue... This is incredible.
I am aware this sound really dumb... you are all going duh... but this was a revelation for me in the last few days...before it had a lot to do with luck, and very sloooolwy building up some darks. Now, with the value scale, and Murrays tips, I can just shoot for the right one right away.
It will still take lots of practise...
frieda


Happy to hear things are going well with the drawing!
You will definitely get better as you go!



Murray
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