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  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-16-2006, 05:15 PM
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nana b nana b is offline
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Re: Using Projectors

Linda, I think your right on
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:57 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Ciallelo
If you want to use the projector , that's fine with me. I don't find it offensive. Personally I wouldn't do it because I like my drawings better than the photo anyway. The act of drawing the photo always transforms it into something more personal. I guess it would be "my view" of the photo. Photorealism leaves me cold. I want to see evidence of human intervention.

beyond that, there is rarely if ever such a thing as the perfect photo. one could trace a photo(figuretive is what i'm talking about), and come out with a perfectly bad anatomical drawing. in so many ways,,,i can take a GOOD photo and have to change at least 40% of the most important areas of the figure to make it work.
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:47 AM
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Linda Ciallelo Linda Ciallelo is offline
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Re: Using Projectors

I like to take two or three photos of exactly the same thing, at different exposures, and work from all of them. If you are looking around the room your eyes will adjust to different lighting. A photo only has one setting, unlike your eyes. I'm working on a plum still life right now. I'm using one photo for the plums and one for the background. They are exactly the same composition, just different exposure.
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Old 07-22-2006, 01:54 PM
HarveyDunn
 
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Re: Using Projectors

I avoid mechanical/photo aids because I fear they are a habit-forming, skills-atrophying crutch. Drawing is power - the power to rearrange to create the composition that you want, rather than being dependent on the composition that the photograph hands you. Drawing also makes YOU the responsible party. I cannot count the number of times I have heard variations of this exchange:

A: I just finished this, what do you think?
B: It is very nice, but that bit there is a bit wonky.
A: Yes, I know, but it was like that in the photograph.

Urrgh.

Note I said "avoid" - I am not an absolutist. I once spent two days working on a 19 x 24 cartoon for a painting only to decide when it was finished that one large element was in fact too large, by about 10%. I drove to Kinkos, photocopied it at 90%, cut it out and then cut up the original and taped the good bits into a succesful whole.

But: had I not spent all the previous time and effort getting intimately familiar with every aspect of my design and composition, I may not have ever noticed the problem.

As for transfer to the canvas: I use the charcoal method mentioned earlier, except for high key areas, where I will switch from charcoal to a light value pastel.

And, a final aside: has anyone else noticed that houses have definately gotten uglier since architects stopped drawing and started using CAD?
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Old 07-22-2006, 05:26 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyDunn
And, a final aside: has anyone else noticed that houses have definately gotten uglier since architects stopped drawing and started using CAD?

i don't pay attention but computer aids usually lowers the entry skill level to anyone who can use a mouse.

harvey,,,,,your illustrations were awesome but doesn't that make you 122 years old?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:47 PM
HarveyDunn
 
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Re: Using Projectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin70

harvey,,,,,your illustrations were awesome but doesn't that make you 122 years old?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Another reason why I don't use a projector - new fangled nonsense.
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:24 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

For me, using a projector as an aid for measuring is fine. I do it sometimes when I need to get an outline done quickly. However, I do feel it is important to practice drawing skills as well. I say, if you want to use a projector, go ahead. It won't hurt you as long as you also take some time to practice free-hand drawing. Maybe join a local group that does portraits of live models or still lifes so that you can enhance your drawing skills and learn from other people. Then, for times when you do choose to use a projector, you won't feel that you have to make any excuses for your work to anyone because you will feel confident that you CAN draw as well.

Last edited by rmarlow : 08-06-2006 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 08-08-2006, 11:09 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: Using Projectors

I have owned an opaque projector for more than two decades. I still use it on occasion, though much less than I used to.

While I occasionally draw from photographic references (again, less than I used to), but I have never projected photos; I have only ever used the proejctor to re-size and or correctly position my own drawings.

I'm re-working two figure drawings right now that were originally intended for different paintings, but I've decided to put them together in the same composition. Both figures are based on life drawings I did from models I hired two years ago.

I'll probably use the projector to enlarge the smaller figure so that it will match the scale of the larger drawing.

I think the projector is a useful tool, but like any tool it can be misused.

Keith.
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Old 08-12-2006, 09:26 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

I've been more or less actively involved with art for 10 years now and this debate has been raging every since. It comes up in the art magazines I read at least once a year. I even believe there is a previous debate here on wetcanvas in the debate forums from 6 years ago.

My first lessons were from an artist who did his own drawings, but promoted the use of a projector. When I look at the paintings I did then, they are beautiful, but I do feel like I did use a coloring book method (projected my own slides and photos). That said, I don't see the harm of projecting your own sketches to save time. It is the same thing as Larry did with this cutouts. (and from the retail manager side of me: Just stop returning the projectors to the store after you've completed your project and saying it wasn't what you needed ).
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Old 08-27-2006, 08:51 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

I use a projector as a tool! From photos that I take, I project the image to see where on the paper I would like it! To see how I want to resize the image without erasing it from my paper a thousand times...to add images from other photos onto my painting....After I get my "sketch" on my paper, which are more like gestural lines, I then DRAW the images... Even the masters used reflections to help them draw their work....a projector CANNOT paint a picture for you, only the artist can do that...
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Old 08-27-2006, 08:57 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

AHMEN runninghorsegal......
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:12 AM
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Re: Using Projectors

There's nothing wrong with using a projector. You're still the one painting the image, and unless you are truly skilled, you will never achieve a photorealist rendering with a projector, although more than likely it will still be more realistically portrayed than if you did it free hand.

Practice will improve your skills, no argument, but there is no SIN in using a projector, a grid system, or a camera obscura arrangement.
If the work looks good when completed, what difference does it make how it was rendered?

There is a point where the "esoteric" concerns regarding the creation of art far exceed practicality and common sense.

~M
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:16 PM
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Re: Using Projectors

I think of a projector like a striaght edge. If I use a ruler to make a perfectly straight line, then every other line in my piece must be equally perfect. If I use a projector, I have to live up to the photograph. My path is already chosen.

I would much rather give myself some freedom. Freedom to have an unstraight line, freedom to change whatever elements I want, freedom to "make it look good" even if it is not what is in the sketch or photograph.

I would suggest using a blocking in method like Anthony Ryder describes in his figure drawing book.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:51 AM
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Re: Using Projectors

Quote:
Did you know the old masters often traced? Leonardo Da Vinci used "Camera Obscura" which is a lens and a mirror set at an angle with parchment over it to trace onto. Michaelangelo used a similar technique. Great Realistic Painters began employing photography as a mechanical aid immediately after it's invention in the 1800's. This is not surprising since artists had been tracing from Camera Obscura for thousands of years. Famous Myths; Leonardo Da Vinci (1452- 1519 ) is often credited with the invention of Camera Obscura because he used it for his masterworks during the Renaissance and mentioned it in his notebooks, but this is simply not true. Similarly, Americans are credited with the camera, but it is also not true. The earliest description of Camera Obscura occurs in the great optical treatise Opticae Thesaurus ( Book of optics ) of the Islamic scientist Al-Hazen who died at Cairo, Egypt in A.D. 1098. Since he says he did not invent it, we know it came sooner.
http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/pencil.htm
Freedom is fine, unless you want accuracy. Then freedom must be sacrificed. The extent depends on how accurate you want the image to be to its source. It's a simple as that. If you want it to look like a cat in general, be free. If you want it to look like a specific cat, you need to be accurate.

As for your blocking suggestion. That does not guarantee that the artist can accurately block in, contour, refine and detail accurately. Did you notice the sentence, "On average, I put in about twelve three-hour sessions (thats 36 hours) for each finished figure drawing..." (emphasis and time multiplication mine).
I'd rather use a projector, and get done faster. We're not talking drawings, here, as drawings usually don't require a projector. It would be ludicrous to spend 36 hours to get an image onto a canvas before painting...

~M

Last edited by madster : 09-21-2006 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:49 AM
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Re: Using Projectors

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyDunn
And, a final aside: has anyone else noticed that houses have definately gotten uglier since architects stopped drawing and started using CAD?

I sure have. All the houses here in Atlanta look the same too.
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