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Old 12-17-2004, 07:24 AM
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King Rundzap King Rundzap is offline
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by arlene
then the question to ask is what draws you into a painting across a room? usually it's something in the way the color, or values, or placement of objects is handled. why do you walk right by other paintings?

Yes, usually all of that stuff, with the addition of content--I'm much more attracted to some content over other content. For example, there aren't many still lifes that I like a lot (none that are anything like a "traditional" still lifes, at least). Anyway, personally, in museums or galleries, if I'm looking for myself, I'm very systematic about my viewing--I look at everything, without walking by anything unless I'm just leaving (I'm also someone who reads every page of a book, including the "legal" page(s)--copyright notices, etc. and I always watch films until the credits are over ) (By the way, anyone who knows me well will warn people not so familiar with me about going to museums with me--including science museums, history museums, etc. I'm one of those people who has to read _everything_ there, although I can make exceptions to play tour guide if it's a museum at home that I'm very familiar with already, but I still get annoyed if someone only wants to be in a museum for an hour and a half or so. I'm not very easy to get along with, as if you couldn't guess.)

Anyway, at visual art museums, I know that's not the usual thing to do though, as I'll sometimes sit for awhile and watch other people, who'll walk by a lot of paintings or objects and not look very long at the ones they do stop at. That seems to be more the norm. At least in museums like the Met (although that might be partially explainable in that a lot of people there are tourists who are trying to see the whole Met in a day).

Last edited by King Rundzap : 12-17-2004 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:24 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rundzap
However, the people on WC are more than a bit biased, for all of the following reasons:

1. This site leans heavily towards people with a taste for more traditional, realist art, and a particular school of that kind of traditional, realist art at that. A lot of people who do not particularly like that kind of art tend to get discouraged here. The range of art posted and encouraged on WC in no way resembles (in terms of ratios, at least) the range of art done and encouraged in the various artworlds. I've been pretty discouraged off and on by it, too, but I'm a glutton for punishment I have plenty of artist friends who have given the site a look or two and weren't interested, because of the bias.

But King, don't you think that the world is actually populated more by 'Sunday painters', than any other kind of visual artist?

Quote:
No matter what you do as an artist, there is a pool of folks who'll be interested in buying it. The trick is to find those folks.

Right.

K
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:31 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: visual path question

The problem with studying the way 'the average person' looks at visual imagery, is that artists are not average folks--not at all.

Most people who visit galleries seem to 'browse' the work; looking at each piece from the same basic distance, whether a small painting, large painting, small sculpture, large sculpture. They spend the same amount of time on each piece, and seem to view each piece with the same attitude.

Artists, on the other hand, will skip over some pieces with barely a glance, then really look at others; they'll move in, take their glasses off, and get within inches of painting, then step way back to see it from a distance, then get really close again. They'll spend much longer looking at certain pieces than the 'average' person.

I think that, even if study could 'prove' that 'most people' tend to follow specific patterns when they view images, I think that there will always be minority groups (artists, other image professionals, etc.) who view imagery far differently. (Perhaps, though I personally doubt it, artists themselves follow patters, too--albeit different ones from non-artists.)

But, I don't think you can extrapolate how artists view imagery, from studying the viewing behaviour of non-artists.

The composition books I've read, show several basic patterns/pathways for the eye to travel 'thru' various 'well-composed' paintings/compositions. Surely, if there was one 'way' in which people (even most people) looked at imagery, there would be one 'pattern' which would be hailed, above all others, as 'the best'.

This is certainly not the case.

(And, I don't believe in the 'subconscious mind', either!)

K
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Last edited by Keith Russell : 12-17-2004 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:43 AM
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Russell
But King, don't you think that the world is actually populated more by 'Sunday painters', than any other kind of visual artist?

I don't know, really. I'm not sure if you're meaning that WC is mostly "Sunday Painters" and they're the ones who tend to be more traditionalist in that way? That could be. I can't say I know or talk to a lot of "Sunday Painters" otherwise, so maybe that's why the views are so odd to me. I do know a fair amount of artists who have other jobs to supplement their income, but that's just how they look at it--a necessary burden to enable them to have money to live and do what they really to do--create art. But both those kinds of artists and the full time artists I know have been mostly uninterested (or worse) when they've checked out WC. But admittedly, because of my interests and views, I hang out with a biased crowd.
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:52 AM
dcorc dcorc is offline
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Re: visual path question

Has either KR heard of the phenomenon of "Blindsight"? If not, I suggest you go read up on it (and one of you might care to start a new thread on it, possibly in debates?)



Dave
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:40 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rundzap
I don't know, really. I'm not sure if you're meaning that WC is mostly "Sunday Painters" and they're the ones who tend to be more traditionalist in that way?

No, with as many members as WC has, I wouldn't dare to hazard a guess as to the artistic direction of 'most' of its members.

I know that I only hang out regularly in about four or five forums, and there are several forums here I've not visited at all.

I am a member of three local arts groups, and have visited several others. They are mostly comprised of 'Sunday painters'; my opinion is based only on this.

Quote:
That could be. I can't say I know or talk to a lot of "Sunday Painters" otherwise, so maybe that's why the views are so odd to me. I do know a fair amount of artists who have other jobs to supplement their income, but that's just how they look at it--a necessary burden to enable them to have money to live and do what they really to do--create art. But both those kinds of artists and the full time artists I know have been mostly uninterested (or worse) when they've checked out WC. But admittedly, because of my interests and views, I hang out with a biased crowd.

Well, with what kinds of artists do you associate? How are they biased?

K
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Old 12-17-2004, 12:06 PM
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorc
Has either KR heard of the phenomenon of "Blindsight"? If not, I suggest you go read up on it (and one of you might care to start a new thread on it, possibly in debates?)



Dave

Well, not that this isn't off topic, lol, but I'm somewhat familiar with it. I found a "test" or example of it online http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/blindsight.html

Here were my scores:
My score of 34 hits: 50%
Of 16 seen: 87%
Of 8 maybe seen: 25%
Of 10 not seen: 10%

That doesn't seem like good evidence of "blindsight" for me. Maybe other people could do better, but remember that I don't think that everyone is the same.
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Old 12-17-2004, 12:18 PM
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Russell
Well, with what kinds of artists do you associate? How are they biased?

They're mostly artists who do not particularly care for the old portrait/landscape/still-life/geometric-abstract approaches to art (some of them think I'm a "traditionalist" in doing the landscapes I do, for example, lol), and who aren't realists (in the definition I gave of realism awhile ago). A lot are either doing wacky "postmodernist", pop and dadaist-related stuff and/or trying to do something related to horror art, comic-book art, or "fantasy" art in a very broad sense (not meaning dragons and fairies). I also know a lot of people who do a fair amount of "commercial" art--album covers, book/magazine illustrations, t-shirt illustrations for bands, etc.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:58 PM
dcorc dcorc is offline
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Re: visual path question

Well I, for one, give up trying to steer this thread back to anything resembling "on-topic".

Jon - happy to discuss issues with you by PM.

Dave
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Old 12-17-2004, 05:32 PM
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rundzap
They're mostly artists who do not particularly care for the old portrait/landscape/still-life/geometric-abstract approaches to art (some of them think I'm a "traditionalist" in doing the landscapes I do, for example, lol), and who aren't realists (in the definition I gave of realism awhile ago). A lot are either doing wacky "postmodernist", pop and dadaist-related stuff and/or trying to do something related to horror art, comic-book art, or "fantasy" art in a very broad sense (not meaning dragons and fairies). I also know a lot of people who do a fair amount of "commercial" art--album covers, book/magazine illustrations, t-shirt illustrations for bands, etc.

Sounds like the crowd I run with, in many ways.

K
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:29 PM
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Re: visual path question

Quote:
Originally Posted by arlene
bill go look at the thread i started.

Arlene,

I just did, and I thanked you for it, as well. Thank you, once more.

Bill
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:12 PM
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Re: visual path question

The original question was about the relationship of a visual pathway and focal areas.

The compositional principle underlying this relationship is the need for the eye to travel across the vertical and horizontal axis of the picture plane before exiting . A focal area may or may not allow the eye to do that. So the visual pathway is itself independent of the focal area, in that it is the movement visually through the whole composition that is the idea of a visual pathway. A pathway that leads to a focal area, but does not also support movement away from the focal area, may not be the optimal arrangement of elements.
ken
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:39 PM
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Re: visual path question

ken, the pathway up and down are the same.

K
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:34 PM
Moosehead Moosehead is offline
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Re: visual path question

Ken, thanks for your response.
Very kind of you to answer exactly what I was asking. I hope you didn't mind wading through (or didn't bother wading through) all the extraneous posts.
Much appreciated.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:21 PM
bigflea bigflea is offline
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Re: visual path question

Your are welcome Moosehead.
Did not mind reading through the replies, but thought your original question/point was worth more consideration.

Jackie Simmonds has a post in another composition thread with pertinent points/

Ofcourse you are right Keith, and it is even better if the visual pathway allows the eye to circle back around through the composition. My comment was to the underlying relationship between the focal area and a visual pathway.
ken

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