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Old 03-12-2017, 04:03 PM
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Use to denote nudity/mature subject matter composition

the skeleton, the structure of a painting

Hoping y'all can post a Favorite/appealing/inspiring painting composition(s) ... the completed work [and/or the skeleton, i'm not picky], [simple or complex, reality or abstract or anything in between, again, not picky], [write a blurb or just a photo - not picky], [individually or a group free-for-all - i don't care!]

Hoping y'all can do so in the Composition Forum, which is surprisingly un-busy, given the importance of composition.



la
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:02 PM
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Re: composition

Only one sticky on the comp forum - a single post with a collection of links to older past posts.. Some updated posts & current info links would be nice to have there..

I can't say I have a favorite or preferred comp style..
If a painting is well done overall, that what draws me in..
*certain colors /combinations seem to really appeal to me...
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:31 PM
DebbieO DebbieO is offline
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Re: composition

Composition isn't something I tend to notice in a painting until it is problematic . So I'm struggling to come up with my favourite.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:53 PM
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Re: composition

Composition isn't something I tend to notice in a painting until it is problematic.

Unfortunately, I think that's something quite common at WC!

As La suggests, composition is the structure, framework, or skeleton of a work of art. Actually, I would go further and suggest that composition is something that an artist continues to develop throughout the process of the whole of the painting or other work of art. Design and Composition are usually essential courses taken by any student in art school or a college/university art department. At the grade school level, we try to draw students' attention to the so-called Principles of Design, pointing out how an artist organizes the various art elements in order to lend a solid structure and reinforce the intent.

I might also point out that composition is multi-faceted. It includes not merely the placement of objects/shapes but also the organization of line, value, color, etc...

I'm off to bed soon, but I would be interested in later exploring composition as used by exemplary "master" artists... or employed by ourselves.

YouTube has a wealth of great videos looking at great works of art and often discussing these in terms of composition.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:41 PM
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Re: composition

I have a book called The Painter's Secret Geometry...
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:26 AM
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Re: composition

The painting I'm working on now is almost all about composition, geometry. I just like the balance of angles and forms in it, rule of thirds etc., otherwise there is not much to it.

I'll post it when done.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:29 AM
Ovid's Exile Ovid's Exile is offline
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Re: composition

What, like this stuff?














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Old 03-13-2017, 03:24 AM
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Re: composition

sure, ovid, if those are comps that inspire you

and yes, debbie, wouldn't it be nice to head off the problem before it's even there? to know at early sketch stages, what works and what doesn't.

we pretty much all know the basic rule of thirds, but there are many paintings i see [here and there and everywhere] that are off ... generally due to composition and/or values and/or perspective.

so, if the composition forum was given a boost, i expect everyone would benefit from it. or here in the cafe, not picky, really, but the comp forum is pretty lame, it could indeed use some help. it's not hard to get a sticky stuck if there's info worth sticking.

a worthy of discussion discussion, a selfish one for me, given my explorations with abstract, which relies [can rely] so much on a decent comp.

la
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:58 AM
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Re: composition

I always try to get my fibonocci numbers right first divided by pie R squared and then take the mean of the deviations from the inverse of the differential. And that's just to determine where to sign the piece. I have a supercomputer doing most of the heavy lifting in my paintings.

Or I just do what looks right.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:37 PM
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Re: composition

All kidding aside, can't we just trust our eye? Or do we need to keep in mind all the "rules".

Honestly I probably do not give enough - I mean I give no attention - to the rules except the thirds and even then it is rarely a conscious effort. IMO, if it looks right, it is.

Sometimes, off-kilter works better and sometimes the rules are too obviously adhered to.

Oh, and it's the 3/5 ratio, not thirds, so I've been doing it all wrong. Darn it.

Where to put the cow. A cartoon guide to composition.

http://www.fredgriffinart.com/PORTFO...retoputcow.htm
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:29 PM
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Re: composition

lol, john!

'we' is a pretty broad term and i, on one hand, agree with you about winging it
but, on the other hand, i mess up a bunch of canvas and waste a bunch of time, winging it.

some have good instinct for balance, comp, placement
some don't
i'm somewhere in the middle, i suppose, but given the years i've been painting i really should be on the upper scale of understanding but here i am, flailing along, hoping to get lucky

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Old 03-13-2017, 03:39 PM
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Re: composition

Quote:
Originally Posted by La_
the skeleton, the structure of a painting ...

also referred to as:
  • abstract arrangement of shapes
  • abstract pattern of light and dark shapes
  • abstract structure
  • armature
  • bones of the painting
  • compositional order
  • compositional skeleton
  • compositional structure
  • design formats
  • design pattern(s)
  • design plan
  • design stem (Edgar Payne)
  • design structure
  • dominant geometric forces in the subject
  • grouping of non representational shapes
  • major abstract value masses
  • masses of values
  • organizational structure
  • organizing patterns
  • overall dynamics of painting
  • overall organization of the picture plane
  • overriding theme of movement and structure of a painting
  • rhythms, movements and countermovements
  • road map for the painting
  • scaffold/scaffolding
  • shapes underlying everything
  • spatial organization
  • stem: The scaffold upon which the artist hangs his image is the design or root.
  • the arrangement of dark, light, and middle toned areas
  • the backbone of a painting
  • the bone structure
  • the divisions of the rectangle
  • the element of repetition
  • the flow
  • the path of the eye
  • the placing of the focal point
  • the quality of the shapes used
  • underlying abstraction
  • underlying design
  • underlying geometry of the image
  • value design
  • value organization
  • value plan
  • value structure
...and a few other names I haven't included in my list.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:56 PM
DebbieO DebbieO is offline
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Re: composition

Quote:
Originally Posted by La_
sure, ovid, if those are comps that inspire you

and yes, debbie, wouldn't it be nice to head off the problem before it's even there? to know at early sketch stages, what works and what doesn't.

oh of course, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. It's just for me personally, it's already innate in the process. I think for some people there is an intuitive side to it.

I spend a lot time planning my composition but it is a lot of trial and error in thumbnail sketches, mocking up and adjusting cropping and I can't really tell you ahead of time what will work or why, but I know it when I see it.

That said, it's solid in my mind by the time I go to put paint to canvas.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:58 PM
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Re: composition

... and we have a comp forum player!!

la
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:06 PM
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Re: composition

All kidding aside, can't we just trust our eye? Or do we need to keep in mind all the "rules".

Honestly I probably do not give enough - I mean I give no attention - to the rules except the thirds and even then it is rarely a conscious effort. IMO, if it looks right, it is.


The "rules" of composition are not hard, cut, & dried. Indeed, I would suggest that the term, "rule(s)" is itself misleading. Composition is about developing an awareness of the structures and patterns in a work of visual art and how these impact how we see or "read" such a work.

It isn't as if one need only follow the rules 100% to be assured of creating a masterpiece. On the other hand, I cannot imagine a composer or a poet creating without a real grasp of formal structures of their art.

Yes; many contemporary artists work in a manner that is far more intuitive than the manner of the "old masters"... just as a contemporary poet writing in "free verse" works in a far more intuitive manner than a poet composing within a formal structure such as a sonnet or within a formal meter like Iambic Pentameter... but the success of such is largely dependent upon the quality... and experience of the eye of the artist.

An artist who has spent time learning the "rules" and looking at the works of other artists and seriously thinking about why this work is better than that one, can likely work quite successfully in an intuitive manner... without giving repeated conscious thought to the composition. But honestly, I don't find many who assume composition is something of little importance producing a lot of art that really impresses.
******************

A good number of Ovid's geometric analyses of the geometric structures of the old master paintings strike me as being over the top. On the other hand... the artists of the Renaissance especially put great store with the belief in mathematics and as such... a belief in the mathematical structures of the world and the universe. As such, I don't wholly deny that their paintings were begun with some clear mathematic skeleton in mind. This video is quite intriguing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR-TPuOPvZA

The key line in this video, IMO, is "The fact of the matter is that the human brain is hard-wired to find patterns in things."

Composition is about the artist being aware of the formal structures and patterns in the work of visual art, and employing the knowledge of such to strengthen his or her own work.
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