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  • #993267

    I have an art teacher who uses linseed oil alone to thin his oil paint for the underpainting layer. I find that odd. It seems to me that adding a lot of linseed oil to thin the paint from the tube would result in a very fat although quite transparent layer. This seems to me to violate the fat over lean principle. Am I missing something?

    "Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life….”
    Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life[/SIZE]

    #1231795
    sabana
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        As long as hes consistent throughout the painting theres nothing wrong with doing this.

        #1231796

        As long as hes consistent throughout the painting theres nothing wrong with doing this.

        Thank you, Sabana – by consistent throughout, do you mean using only linseed oil and tube paint throughout (i.e. no mineral spirits, turpenoid, gamsol and the like in any layer?) Or, do you mean using lots of linseed oil in subsequent layers. I mean LOTS of linseed oil – this first layer is transparent.

        "Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life….”
        Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life[/SIZE]

        #1231792
        AllisonR
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            If you start with linseed, and continue with it, there is no fat over lean issue. Even if you keep the SAME amount of medium in subsequent layers it is not an issue. Because the previous layer has some extra time on it for drying. The issue is if you start with linseed, then the next layer use terp. Or you start with some crazy amount, like 50% linseed, and then the next layer use 5% linseed.

            But one shouldn’t use excessive mediums in any case. A touch, a few percent.
            When you say a lot of medium, how much do you mean? Because a ton of medium in any layer is not a good idea, not for the strength and longevity of your painting. A ton of linseed could cause wrinkling.

            Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

            http://www.artallison.com/
            #1231797

            If you start with linseed, and continue with it, there is no fat over lean issue. Even if you keep the SAME amount of medium in subsequent layers it is not an issue. Because the previous layer has some extra time on it for drying. The issue is if you start with linseed, then the next layer use terp. Or you start with some crazy amount, like 50% linseed, and then the next layer use 5% linseed.

            But one shouldn’t use excessive mediums in any case. A touch, a few percent.
            When you say a lot of medium, how much do you mean? Because a ton of medium in any layer is not a good idea, not for the strength and longevity of your painting. A ton of linseed could cause wrinkling.

            Thank you, Allison. Regarding the amount of linseed oil in the underpainting layer: This is the process in this workshop: Do a multicolor but not refined drawing of your subject on gessoed (acrylic gesso) canvas in watercolor pencil. Spray with fixative, let dry. Then, squirt from tube(s) your oil paint color of choice (for this painting we used a mixture of yellow ochre and a touch of ultramarine blue) onto your palette and mix with enough linseed oil to make the solution transparent. Paint this solution with a large brush over the entire canvas and let dry for a week or so. The linseed/paint solution is transparent enough that the drawing (colors, shapes, lines, etc) shows through completely. How much linseed oil? I am guessing here – if memory serves, we dipped a 2″ brush into linseed oil and then the colors perhaps twice.

            "Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life….”
            Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life[/SIZE]

            #1231794
            Gigalot
            Default

                Then, squirt from tube(s) your oil paint color of choice (for this painting we used a mixture of yellow ochre and a touch of ultramarine blue) onto your palette and mix with enough linseed oil to make the solution transparent.

                You can use linseed oil if you are using lead ground and lead white in upper layers. If you are painting “lead-free”, “solvent-free”, “non-toxic” – then it might be better to use Galkyd or to use Liquin for such a purpose instead of linseed oil.
                Galkyd and Lquin can dry normally without presence of lead ions.

                #1231793
                AllisonR
                Default

                    Interesting. That is a very fat layer if it is the linseed making the color translucent. However, it could also be useful for getting a lot of oil into the gesso layer, and have less sink-in later. I would do this only if I knew how much oil sucked into the ground, and I knew how I was going to behave in the subsequent layers. Another way of making the layer translucent is using less linseed with your colors, and just applying the color more thinly.

                    Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

                    http://www.artallison.com/
                    #1231798

                    Interesting. That is a very fat layer if it is the linseed making the color translucent. However, it could also be useful for getting a lot of oil into the gesso layer, and have less sink-in later. I would do this only if I knew how much oil sucked into the ground, and I knew how I was going to behave in the subsequent layers. Another way of making the layer translucent is using less linseed with your colors, and just applying the color more thinly.

                    Allison – getting oil into the gesso layer is an interesting possibility; I hadn’t thought of that. I am pretty sure this particular teacher knows exactly how he will be approaching the subsequent layers, so perhaps he is, indeed, thinking ahead. I wonder whether the spray fixative under the oil-thinned paint layer would keep the oil from soaking into the gesso, though. Surely he has thought that through as well.

                    "Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life….”
                    Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life[/SIZE]

                    #1231799

                    You can use linseed oil if you are using lead ground and lead white in upper layers. If you are painting “lead-free”, “solvent-free”, “non-toxic” – then it might be better to use Galkyd or to use Liquin for such a purpose instead of linseed oil.
                    Galkyd and Lquin can dry normally without presence of lead ions.

                    Gigalot, thank you.I am avoiding lead, solvents, cads, cobalts…. but I am curious about the chemistry in your comment: Are you saying that if I were using lead white in the upper layers that the lead would retard drying?

                    "Perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people. It will keep you cramped and insane your whole life….”
                    Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life[/SIZE]

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