Home › Forums › Explore Media › Oil Painting › How does one do a 30 layer oil painting?
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June 3, 2016 at 11:42 am #994137
I have difficulty visualizing this process while respecting the fat over lean rule. I get paranoid of the wrong process and cracking very easily. As someone who just swapped from acrylics to oil, I hadn’t got six months to see if my own works.
Do I just take a pipette and count like, 29 drops oil to 1 drop solvent on the final layer?
If the underpainting is a layer with solvent and a touch of oil can I use straight from the tube as the second layer?
Is it possible to paint with higher-than-oil solvent ratios with progressive oil increases as the layers stack?
Can I directly switch from liquin to linseed oil like they’re interchangeable as the layers stack? What about using poppy or walnut oil for the top layer?
Does the top layers always have to be more oily than the last or is it ok to use the same amount of oil each time if you’re painting in few layers?
June 3, 2016 at 1:05 pm #1252386Do you really want to do a 30 layer painting? You probably don’t need that many layers to achieve the effects you’re after.
I have difficulty visualizing this process while respecting the fat over lean rule. I get paranoid of the wrong process and cracking very easily. As someone who just swapped from acrylics to oil, I hadn’t got six months to see if my own works. Do I just take a pipette and count like, 29 drops oil to 1 drop solvent on the final layer?
Don’t worry too much. There’s no need to overthink it. It’s not rocket science. Just make sure your first layers are thinner than your last layers, that you don’t add too much oil or solvent and that you let your layers dry properly before painting over them.
If the underpainting is a layer with solvent and a touch of oil can I use straight from the tube as the second layer?
Probably. Just let it try sufficiently.
Is it possible to paint with higher-than-oil solvent ratios with progressive oil increases as the layers stack?
Yes, but don’t add too much of anything to the paint.
Can I directly switch from liquin to linseed oil like they’re interchangeable as the layers stack? What about using poppy or walnut oil for the top layer?
Poppy or walnut oil in the top layer is fine. Using linseed oil and linquin in different layers is not a good idea, since they have very different drying qualities. Stick with one or the other, would be my advice.
Does the top layers always have to be more oily than the last or is it ok to use the same amount of oil each time if you’re painting in few layers?
It’s ok to use the same amount of oil in every layer. As long as you make sure each layer dries sufficiently before you apply the next. And if your first layers are thinner (dimensionally) than your upper layers, you will be fine. You might want to avoid slow drying colors (like titanium white for instance) in your first layers and quick drying colors (like burnt umber and prussian blue) in your upper layers.
Hope this helps relieving the paranoia.
June 3, 2016 at 4:33 pm #1252388Try to read any of books about foundation of oil painting. Then buy basic fast drying medium and try to paint with it. Actually you don´t need to use it too much, just in amount of drops (by brush). After that buy some basic ingrediendts as stand oil,turpentiol (not turpentine) and try to mix simple medium 1:3 , 1:2 etc. and use it in painting. I´m sure u´ll be able to paint anything just with these. Forgot for that tons of layers – these were used at the beginning of renaissance and never used after oil painting technique was spread after 16th century. From baroque era there is not more than 3-4 main layers (containging oil medium) in painting – 0. ground layer (1-2) 1. scetch (umbra- todays misscalled underpainting) 2. Underpainting (color or grisaille) 3. 1st painting layer 4. 2nd painting layer 3. finishing layer (detailing) 4. possible glazing layers
If you´re not demand to paint like renaissance masters or van Eyck etc.
I was same frightened as you when i was started with all this alchemy of mediums. Actually now i use just stand oil with turpentiol as Rembrandt and Turner did. I think it is the best.Paul
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June 3, 2016 at 5:59 pm #1252375There is nothing wrong with applying as many layers as you desire, to complete your painting. Realize that there is no hard-and-fast rule that every area of your painting requires the same number of layers, however. Sometimes, I may apply 3, or 4 layers to a background, while a flower petal may receive 6 or 8 layers.
I use whatever number of layers is required to get the painting to appear the way I want it.
Also, I use one medium throughout the entire painting, including all the layers from the grisaille underpainting up through, and including the final, glaze layer.
By using the same medium, I am never placing a faster-drying, more brittle layer over a slower-drying, more flexible layer. Once I have applied a layer, it always has a “head-start” on drying, compared to the next layer I’m applying.
The rule is basically that one should paint “fat-over-lean”. However, there is nothing that goes against that principle by painting “fat-over-fat”, or “lean-over-lean”.
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https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comJune 3, 2016 at 6:23 pm #125237830 layers would be extreme. I would imagine that between 5 to 8 layers would the most most people use. The more layers, the greater chance of problems occurring.
As mentioned, the easiest way to manage your medium is to use the same medium and the same amount of medium in each layer – letting each layer dry sufficiently.
Don
June 4, 2016 at 2:41 am #1252397Do you really want to do a 30 layer painting?
Hope this helps relieving the paranoia.It was more out of curiousity because I read that some Wetcanvas people did it. I feel better now, thanks.
There is nothing wrong with applying as many layers as you desire, to complete your painting. Realize that there is no hard-and-fast rule that every area of your painting requires the same number of layers, however. Sometimes, I may apply 3, or 4 layers to a background, while a flower petal may receive 6 or 8 layers.
I use whatever number of layers is required to get the painting to appear the way I want it.
Also, I use one medium throughout the entire painting, including all the layers from the grisaille underpainting up through, and including the final, glaze layer.
By using the same medium, I am never placing a faster-drying, more brittle layer over a slower-drying, more flexible layer. Once I have applied a layer, it always has a “head-start” on drying, compared to the next layer I’m applying.
The rule is basically that one should paint “fat-over-lean”. However, there is nothing that goes against that principle by painting “fat-over-fat”, or “lean-over-lean”.
You pretty much simplified the whole confusion with “fat over fat”/”lean-over-lean”. I’m surprised this is really mentioned
Try to read any of books about foundation of oil painting. Then buy basic fast drying medium and try to paint with it. Actually you don´t need to use it too much, just in amount of drops (by brush). After that buy some basic ingrediendts as stand oil,turpentiol (not turpentine) and try to mix simple medium 1:3 , 1:2 etc. and use it in painting. I´m sure u´ll be able to paint anything just with these. Forgot for that tons of layers – these were used at the beginning of renaissance and never used after oil painting technique was spread after 16th century. From baroque era there is not more than 3-4 main layers (containging oil medium) in painting – 0. ground layer (1-2) 1. scetch (umbra- todays misscalled underpainting) 2. Underpainting (color or grisaille) 3. 1st painting layer 4. 2nd painting layer 3. finishing layer (detailing) 4. possible glazing layers
If you´re not demand to paint like renaissance masters or van Eyck etc.
I was same frightened as you when i was started with all this alchemy of mediums. Actually now i use just stand oil with turpentiol as Rembrandt and Turner did. I think it is the best.Thanks
30 layers would be extreme. I would imagine that between 5 to 8 layers would the most most people use. The more layers, the greater chance of problems occurring.
As mentioned, the easiest way to manage your medium is to use the same medium and the same amount of medium in each layer – letting each layer dry sufficiently.
Don
Thanks!
June 4, 2016 at 9:27 am #1252384One do 29 layers in acrylic and one layer of oil on top of acrylic base.
June 4, 2016 at 9:57 am #1252377I know an artist who does as many as 40 layers, but it’s watercolor. Are you sure the Wetcanvas artist you mentioned used oils?? I agree that seems excessive…
June 4, 2016 at 10:11 am #1252385I know an artist who does as many as 40 layers, but it’s watercolor. Are you sure the Wetcanvas artist you mentioned used oils?? I agree that seems excessive…
I can try, but what is a practical reason to do that? I use as less paint lay
ers as possible for work. The reason is a reducing drying time.June 7, 2016 at 6:43 am #1252379AnonymousI get paranoid of the wrong process and cracking very easily
nothing wrong with applying as many layers as you desire
I know an artist who does as many as 40 layers
I have always read the recommendation[/URL] that the more layers you apply, the more prone it will be to problems such as cracking. If it ddn’t matter at some point, then I guess 342 layers would still be ok? I think it would depend on a number of factors.
June 7, 2016 at 7:37 am #1252389I have difficulty visualizing this process while respecting the fat over lean rule. I get paranoid of the wrong process and cracking very easily.
There is a paranoia and obssessional behaviour sub forum in this group.
Ps. Watch out for Nurse Ratched. She isnt what she seems :wink2:
June 8, 2016 at 1:43 am #1252376Wow, I just realized that so far, nobody has really explained to you “How does one do a 30 layer oil painting”, which is your original question.
Here goes:
Make your first layer a gray underpainting. Just don’t paint the gray underpainting in acrylic paint–use oil paint; acrylic paint is NOT acrylic primer, and as a result, has not been engineered to accept oil paint, as acrylic primer has. Use a traditional painting medium to condition your paint such as the following recipe:
1 portion Linseed Oil
1 portion Walnut Oil
1 portion Venice Turpentine
2 portions Oil of Spike LavenderOnce that gray underpainting has dried, rub (yes, massage, with the tip of your finger, or a cosmetic sponge) the medium into the surface of that underpainting into whatever small area you plan to apply a color glaze. Rub it in, and spread it out to such an extent that it exhibits only a slight “sheen” compared to the surrounding, untreated area, when reflecting a light across the surface.
Into that very thin application of medium, apply your full-bodied paint with a soft brush, using the applied medium as a lubricant for the paint, rather than as a “diluent”, or a “thinner”. Select your paints for their colors, rather than for their transparency. Paint transparency is NOT a necessary characteristic for a color glaze.
Allow that applied layer of glazed oil paint to dry, and then merely repeat the process……..30 times. (Or, should I have said, 29 times?)
This may seem simplistic, but (as I teach my students) many times the mere applying of “another layer” of paint improves the appearance of the painting–even if it is the exact same color as the one preceding it. But, often you can modify the glaze layer of color that you are applying to more closely achieve the final color that you are seeking, as well.
I know an oil artist who does, literally apply 20 to 30 glaze layers of paint to his paintings. It is NOT all that uncommon, and his depth of color is profound!:thumbsup:
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comJune 8, 2016 at 7:46 am #1252380AnonymousI get paranoid of the wrong process and cracking very easily…
Can I directly switch from liquin to linseed oil like they’re interchangeable as the layers stack? What about using poppy or walnut oil for the top layer?Constructing a painting with 30 layers, with the best method to reduce the chance of cracking, would best be accomplished using alkyd paints or medium.
As reported here:What are the advantages of using Alkyd paint? The most obvious benefit is a faster drying time. AlkydPro paints have the smooth buttery consistency of oil, but dry in a fraction of the time. In addition, unlike traditional paints, AlkydPro paints do not yellow or become dull when dry. The colors remain brilliant and fresh, maintaining a semi-gloss finish. Unlike oil which is prone to cracking, alkyd paint film remains flexible.
Mixing back and forth between oil and alkyd mediums would definitely be not recommended, I would stick with alkyds for all of the layers.
Not only will your paintings be far more durable, you will be able to produce more paintings because you will waste less of your lifetime waiting for, and watching paint dry.June 8, 2016 at 9:38 am #1252392As for those 30 layers of glaze which were mentioned; few months ago I asked Virgil Elliott for advice on a still life painting which I began, and this is what he told me (part in bold font is highlited by me):
“I suggest you not concern yourself so much with glazing. You’ll gain more in the way of useful skills by working opaquely. Exercises done without color, as described above, in opaque gradations of greys plus white and black, and other exercises painting in full color opaquely will equip you to do better work than pursuing glazing will. Glazing is best done as a final refining touch in a painting done mostly opaquely until very near the end. It isn’t a technique in and of itself; at least it shouldn’t be, because when it’s done too extensively, the results are generally less realistic.“
June 8, 2016 at 10:14 am #1252393Use a traditional painting medium to condition your paint such as the following recipe:
1 portion Linseed Oil
1 portion Walnut Oil
1 portion Venice Turpentine
2 portions Oil of Spike LavenderI made a medium based on proportions in this recipe, but I used only linseed oil. Venice Turpentine is by Sennelier. However I found this article:
http://www.naturalpigments.com/art-supply-education/resins-balsams/I do not recommend Venice turpentine in oil painting for the sole reason that it usually contains rosin, which oxidizes and darkens upon exposure to the atmosphere. Pure larch oleoresin would be preferable, but only as a plasticizer in the medium. Most natural resins are susceptible to darkening and embrittlement, and should be used quite sparingly in a painting.
Another intersting article: http://www.naturalpigments.com/art-supply-education/resin-mediums-damar-maroger/
So I decided to exclude natural resins from my freshly mixed mediums. I may try adding a bit of pure alkyd resin (i.e. without siccatives, in particular this one: http://www.dickblick.com/products/williamsburg-alkyd-resin/) instead of natural resin.
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