Reference Photos ... High Society

[brownblackandwhite]

I don't know if anyone in our group has tackled the subject of reference photos.
In my opinion this is a tricky subject ... and an interesting subject.

I don't know photography and lighting.
I don't know composition.
I don't know colour theory.
I don't know image cropping.
And I don't know styling and propping.
I don't know a lot.

All I know is what I like.
In other words I rely on my intuition and personal preference.

My subject is pink peonies.

They only last about a week before the rain ends their moment of glory ... and I happened to capture them with camera last week ... I am afraid that they are now recorded for posterity.
The rains hit us last night.

I will share some of the photos with you so you can see what changes I have made as I adjusted the lighting and the perspective and propping.
Just to put this in perspective ... I worked with materials that I had at hand ... desk lights and trouble lights ... ladder to adjust position of lighting ... place mats ... vinyl table cloth ... my work bench ... well you get the picture.
Nothing special.
Just make it work.

But I figure as artists we can compensate and make adjustments as we create our vision.
We don't necessarily recreate what we see ... we choose to create what we want.

I took something like 25 pictures in an hour and adjusted lighting and camera angle and subject matter.
It was quick.
I won't punish you with all photos ... I will give you a sampling with my observations.

I would be interested in your opinion ... I will add photographs to this thread that show you my progression.

I would like to know what you think ... what is the most effective composition in terms of lighting and perspective and colour and value.

My so called intuition may be prove to be misguided .

As I have said before ... we learn from each other ... let me know what you think.

So here is Image 1.
In my opinion the lighting is too hot ... lighting is too bright ... we cannot see definition in the petals.
I think we need more drama ... more contrast with the background ... and more detail with the primary subject.

I will show you my adjustments with subsequent postings.

Thanks for looking
Richard

[ocmd123]

While I do like the color balance in this composition, with the focus directly on the flowers, I agree that the highlights are too bright and blown out, and you have lost the definition and subtle color and shadows in the petals.

EDIT TO ADD: Are you planning to roll this thread into a CP piece of the ref you choose?

[Candle]

I agree the highlights are too bright, needs more dark areas for contrast. If I were working on this, I would also crop off some of the bottom. This would put the middle of the blossoms approximately 2/3 of the way up the page, which is a good position for the focal point.
I do like the pronounced folds of fabric on the left side; they add interest and help keep the eye moving around the composition.

[lyonnart]

i have played around in photoshop with the image and this is the best i can do it is not what i would call a good reference image

[brownblackandwhite]

Hi Elaine
I agree that my first shot was hot ... too much light and not enough detail.
As for my intentions ... I don't think I will draw this subject ... but I would invite anyone else to work with the image(s) ... please feel welcome to take up the challenge.
I posted this thread primarily to share my learning experience with photography and composition ... and hopefully learn from everyone's comments.

Hi Candle
Thanks for your comments.
I appreciate what you say about cropping and focal point and contrast ... that is the type of feedback I was looking for ... that helps me to learn.

Hi Lyonnart
I appreciate the time you took to show what can be done with photoshop. And no question ... you have improved the image.

This photograph shows my attempt to create a little more interest with the subject. But I see two problems ... I think the lighting is still too bright and the birds and egg are just too small ... I think I needed something with more height to complement the height of the flower arrangement. Just my opinion.

Thanks for looking
Richard

[brownblackandwhite]

With this photograph ... I moved the view point higher and changed the lighting.
I think I have more detail in the flowers.
Not sure that I like this perspective though.

[brownblackandwhite]

I changed up the propping ... this looks a little softer ... I like the contrast ... and I like the lighting of the glass vase.

[brownblackandwhite]

I think this may be my favourite.
But I should have moved back ... I cropped out the vase ... so I think it looks incomplete.

There you have it ... this is a representation of photographs taken in about one hour.
I learned some things ... next time I will pay more attention to lighting and cropping ... and I will think about the objects that might work together in a composition.

But I am also interested in your comments ... you may see things differently.

Thanks for looking
Richard

[Etoiledusoir]

I'm not too good at the photos, so I could not give you some advice, but I find this latter much more interesting for a painting. We see much better the petals and there is a beautiful harmony of colors. Your topic is interesting, I will learn too.

[smudged-blue]

I agree that the lighting on the flowers in most of these photos is to strong, losing the detail in the petals.

I think you would be better to also share these in the photography forum as they give great advise and could tell you with more information on what will work best as this is what they do.

Thanks for sharing.

[dreamOfSpring]

I, too, agree that the flowers are over exposed. Seems we are all agreed on this. I run into this problem, too, when photographing white or near-white flowers in bright sunlight. I have found the solution for this, if your camera has a way to mark or set the area of focus, is to set it so the focus is directly on the flower. If using auto focus, this will insure the camera sets things up to optimize the values of the flower. My camera (Nikon) has a symbol (x or something like that) on the screen to mark the point of focus. I can move that symbol around to get it over some part of the white flower.

I like several of the photos and think you should consider doing a series if time allows. It's an excellent way to maximize your benefits, as you will learn from each painting and can then apply that knowledge to improve the next. I am particularly fond of the last 3 photos you posted, with the next to last being my favorite.

One option for using a photo like those in which the peony is too light is to use a program like Photoshop to fix it as another respondent showed above. Another option is to use 2 copies of the same photo for the painting, one in which everything else is at the right value, another darkened until the flower values are as desired. Use the latter to paint the flower(s), the former to paint everything else.

A few points on composition (since you asked):

(1) I like the addition of extra items (birds, etc); however, when adding items such as the birds, egg, fallen flowers, etc, it is generally most desirable to add odd numbers of items, like 1, 3, 5, etc. Even numbers like 2 are considered too balanced or static. Thus the 1 fallen flower or 1 egg is good, while 3 birds would be better than 2.

(2) Also, when adding such items, it's good to overlap some of them as this helps to show space and dimension. You did this when you positioned the egg and the stem of the fallen flower partly behind the vase. It might be even better to orient the fallen flower so that it overlaps part of the bottom of the vase and add a 3rd bird positioned to overlap one or both of the existing birds.

(3) I like the bud which shows up w/in the bunch of peonies in some of the views. I think it helps to break up the expanse of otherwise similar pattern. I would consider adding one or more of these buds, 3 maybe, even if they are not present in the photo from which you decide to work.

(4) I would not exclude the pic with the unusual overhead view. I like that one, although my favorite is the one following it. Judges often show a preference for such unusual view points. They like things that are different. I think you should consider cropping the bottom portion of that pic to w/in about 1in of the lowest bird. The expanse of largely unused space on the front of the table is too large in that pic and the area of bright light on the lower right competes with the flowers for attention. Cropping the bottom closer to the birds would eliminate a lot of monotonous (nothing happening there) space and remove the area of bright light.

[van gouda]

Well, you'll do what you want and whatever makes you happy (as you SHOULD) but I say....
Just paint it already!
*Refer* to your reference photos for blocking in or sketching, and let your imagination do the rest. It'll probably end up far more interesting than a painted copy of a photoshopped image.