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  • #992825
    SamL
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        I am learning to glaze.

        I first painted distant mountains with black and white to create the texture. And then I tried to glaze with blue to create atmospheric perspective.

        I understand that it is better to choose transparent pigments to glaze. Ultramarine blue is transparent. Cobalt blue is semitransparent. So I chose Ultramarine blue over cobalt blue, even though Ultramarine blue is darker than cobalt blue.

        I thinned Ultramarine blue with medium. I used a small amount of Ultramarine blue, and a larger amount of medium. The medium is a mixture of resin and oil, no solvent.

        After I applied the mixture to the mountains, it looks transparent but dark. The underneath texture shows through. But the color is not the subtle hint of blue of distant mountains.

        So I added some titanium white. After I applied the new mixture to the mountains, the color is the subtle hint of blue of distant mountains, but it is opaque, the underneath texture is lost.

        When glazing with a dark pigment, how to make the color lighter, while maintaining the transparency?

        #1221682
        snoball
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            If you want to use the darker colors, make the underpainting values lighter than you wish the finished values to be. You will likely be adding highlights on the last layer.


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            #1221695
            llawrence
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                Try natural ultramarine (lapis). It’s weaker and perfect for glazing the kind of subtle effects you’re looking for. As is madder or other natural lakes. The modern pigments are strong, and that can be good, but for subtle glazing something has been lost.

                Or, perhaps that semitransparent cobalt blue might have been best. It is a lovely pigment in oil. I bet that would do it.

                #1221710
                jorri
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                    I either just make it more transparent, thinner or more medium.
                    Same with the white mix, but i use transparent white as its less chalky/smeary than titanium which doesn’t really want to be made transparent (most opaque colours can be).

                    Cobalt blue is lighter, worth a try, its not always that opaque. Just be sure to thin it more since its already ‘semitransparent’ (the particular brand?) its likely to work well.

                    There’s also future plannning for the underpainting, trying to compensate for the glazing.

                    #1221719
                    SamL
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                        i use transparent white as its less chalky/smeary than titanium.

                        Which transparent white pigment do you use in glazing?

                        #1221686
                        ianuk
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                            White wasn’t traditionally used in glazing and colours should go from light to dark, rather than when painting direct, dark to light.

                            #1221720
                            SamL
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                                White wasn’t traditionally used in glazing and colours should go from light to dark.

                                If white is not used in glazing, how do you achieve a light blue final result (after glazing is done)?

                                #1221687
                                ianuk
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                                    If I paint a glaze of very thin blue on top of a grey with a low value, it will give me light blue, if I am careful. Or, I could begin with a light blue and glaze on top of it to dull it down.

                                    Glazing is more akin to watercolour than it is to oil painting. Think watercolour. :)

                                    #1221721
                                    SamL
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                                        If I paint a glaze of very thin blue on top of a grey with a low value, it will give me light blue, if I am careful.

                                        Before I try to understand the process, I want to make sure that I got the terminology right.

                                        When you say “a grey with a low value”, you mean dark grey or black, correct?

                                        In the Munsell color system:
                                        “Value, or lightness, varies vertically along the color solid, from black (value 0) at the bottom, to white (value 10) at the top.”

                                        0 = low = black. 10 = high = white.

                                        So, did you mean “If I paint a glaze of very thin blue on top of a dark grey, it will give me light blue”?

                                        #1221716
                                        J Miller
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                                            If white is not used in glazing, how do you achieve a light blue final result (after glazing is done)?

                                            I’d scumble white over the top if I darkened it too much. If it looks like it needs more blue after that, I’d glaze a very thin blue over the top of the white.

                                            Jim

                                            #1221730
                                            Eu_citzen
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                                                The dark bottom colour will make the transparent colours on top look darker.

                                                When glazing I find it easier to work from light colours to darker, as ianuk noted.
                                                If it got to dark on the last layer, I can simply remove that layer, if the layer underneath is “touch dry”.

                                                #1221688
                                                ianuk
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                                                    Sorry, high value (no wonder I can’t paint)

                                                    #1221722
                                                    SamL
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                                                        Sorry, high value.

                                                        OK. Now that we got the terminology right, let me try to understand the process.

                                                        If I paint a glaze of very thin blue on top of a grey with a high value, it will give me light blue, if I am careful.

                                                        Let’s say a light blue part of the mountain resembles 50% Ultramarine blue + 50% white.

                                                        If you paint a glaze of very thin 100% pure Ultramarine blue (without white) on top of a light grey, will it give you light blue?

                                                        #1221697
                                                        Alan P. in OC
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                                                            When glazing with a dark pigment, how to make the color lighter, while maintaining the transparency?

                                                            You don’t. You can’t. Any addition of a white will make the color more opaque. Even Zinc white, the most transparent of the whites, is semi-opaque.

                                                            Strictly speaking, glazing is painting a transparent color over a monochrome underpainting. If the color is transparent, you’re going to make the result darker. If your new paint is lighter than the current area of the canvas, you’re ‘scumbling’.

                                                            The problem you’re encountering is that most transparent colors are SUPER strong chroma. Not really the right thing for distant mountains. Great for high-croma objects like flowers and maybe some items of clothing, though.

                                                            If you’re dead-set on glazing (instead of just mixing a color accurately right from the start and just painting it), I found that there is a back-and-forth operation of underpainting, glazing, then correcting the glazes with more opaque paint.

                                                            Thinning with so much medium can be done, but I wouldn’t recommend it. You’re basically painting with oil with a tiny bit of pigment in it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the result yellowed very quickly and your transparent blue would become a greenish-brownish tone.

                                                            I find glazing is most effectively done on, as I mentioned before, high-chroma objects, and most effectively used to SLIGHTLY modify areas that need a little more color or need to be a little darker.

                                                            #1221698
                                                            Alan P. in OC
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                                                                OK. Now that we got the terminology right, let me try to understand the process.

                                                                Let’s say a light blue part of the mountain resembles 50% Ultramarine blue + 50% white.

                                                                If you paint a glaze of very thin 100% pure Ultramarine blue (without white) on top of a light grey, will it give you light blue?

                                                                You’re still darkening the light gray, and making it blue. If you make the gray quite a bit lighter than you want the finished product to be, it may work. What also may help is wiping the majority of the blue off, to get the most subtle tint of blue.

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