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- This topic has 38 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 5 months ago by sekulastudio.
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December 29, 2008 at 11:55 am #987642
Greetings! Yes, I know this topic has been all over the place (and then some) but I would like some clear, updated info. I am about 2 weeks away from making the jump for the O2 concentrator. I really don’t know if I want to get involved in boro, so that part isn’t important to me. There are enough things I need to learn with soft glass that can keep me busy forever!
I currently have a minor, so I guess the obvious question is a 5lpm or a 10.
Yes, I fully understand an M10 (for example) will give more than a 5…and a 15, more than a 10 and 5. However, I also need to keep within my budget.
(I do have 2 or 3 suppliers in mind for ANY of those sizes). Also word of mouth and locality of supplier could influence my decision.Any suggestions? Any advice/ recommendations? Are second hand/used madels a wise investment?
Thanks in advance
Duane M
New Website: www.sunsationsartglass.weebly.comDecember 29, 2008 at 1:24 pm #1110761Based on feed back from my students and cutomers. Not a 5 for a minor. Depending on the way you work you need a 10 and if you like more o2 buy a 15.
So at least a 10.
Now if you had a GTT cricket you could do the 5.Used mandrels? well if they aren’t bent sure. But if they are bent then in my mind they are not for bead making. I would buy used mandrels if I could see them and they were cheap.
That is my 2 cents worth.
Sam[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Nina "Sam" Hibler
In the Torch's Flame I was Reborn. My Passion Ignited
www.dreamfireglass.com BLOGDecember 29, 2008 at 1:30 pm #1110775Used mandrels? well if they aren’t bent sure. But if they are bent then in my mind they are not for bead making. I would buy used mandrels if I could see them and they were cheap.
That is my 2 cents worth.
SamSam, thanks for the info! I looked at this comment and thought to myself as I re-read what I typed . I meant to type “used MODELS!!” Too funny.
(I looked at your response about mandrels and said “HUH?”
Duane
New Website: www.sunsationsartglass.weebly.comDecember 29, 2008 at 6:05 pm #1110774Duane, I’m so new to all this concentrator business but from what I have read and from questions I asked the person I bought mine from, the minor will not work properly on the smaller 5lpm concentrator. Like Sam said, you will need at least a 10. Then if you do decide to move on to boro you can hook up a second one if you need more heat. You might be able to do small boro beads with your minor on a 10. I can do small boro with my Cricket set up on the 5.
December 29, 2008 at 6:45 pm #1110786Well Crap! EVERYONE I have talked to has told me that a 5 lpm concentrator will work “just fine” with a minor. So what the heck??? I have a mega minor and was told I could use a5 Liter/min without any problems.
Is there anyone out there who can set me staight???
ReneeDecember 29, 2008 at 7:25 pm #1110776Renee, I kinda agree with you! I’m only saying “kinda” because 60% to 40% people are saying a 5lpm won’t drive a minor to its fullest capabilities. I really don’t want to jump all the way to a 15 lpm because I don’t feel comfortable dropping $650-900 on one. Unless of course someone comes up with or tells me of a super super SUPER deal (on any size!)
Duane
New Website: www.sunsationsartglass.weebly.comDecember 30, 2008 at 12:08 am #1110773sent you a pm.
December 30, 2008 at 7:12 pm #1110785I have a minor with a 5 lpm medical concentrator and it works fine. I turn on the concentrator for about 15 minutes prior to firing up the torch and it works great. I got the concentrator used from a Oxygen medical supply conpany for 100.00
December 31, 2008 at 6:40 am #1110764FWIW – I ran my piranha on a 5 machine but then got a 15 and it rocked – almost too much at times. But I also knew I would be upgrading and need that 15 and more later.
Martha
~ ~ ~ If you try to fail and succeed, which have you? ~ ~ ~
May 5, 2009 at 9:04 am #1110781I too am now looking to buy my first ox concentrator to replace my ox tanks. I am in the process of trying to decide which one to buy – m10 or m15 are what I am thinking about. I really prefer the pricing for the smaller unit and it is rated to work with my torch which is a Carlisle Wildcat. But I am still confused becasue I have read and heard people stating their concentrators do not providing enough oxygen.
Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
[FONT=Arial]Amy T
Amy T's Esty shop & web site
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May 5, 2009 at 9:32 am #1110787I run a Lynx on a 10 and it’s all good….my minor worked fine and my cricket worked fine….I will be attempting to run a Phantom on piggybacked 10s this summer. Talked to the folks at Regala and they created a hose connection for me. Keep your fingers crossed.:eek:
Karen
The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
My WebMay 5, 2009 at 9:35 am #1110788The thing you need to keep in mind with concentrators (and so-called generators), is that they are medical units that have been refurbished and in some cases tweeked.
Almost all of these units (to those who would flame me for this, please note the word ALMOST!!) have seen prior service in providing medical oxygen to patients who need it. They have been taken out of service for a variety of reasons, none of which are important to you (medically speaking). You need to watch the number of hours on the meter, find out when the last repouring of the sieve bed was done.
It is my personal opinion that higher LPM models (the so-called 10 and 15 LPM units) are nothing more than 5 LPM units that have been tweeked by the seller to provide a higher flow of oxygen. But this comes at a cost: shorter life of the sieve beds and potentially shorter life to the compressor and other moving parts. These 5 LPM units were not factory designed to do anything more than provide 5 LPM of oxygen at about 94-95% pure oxygen.
Some of the larger units are custom built, but most likely from 5 LPM parts.
Despite all of the hooraw about concentrators from the various sellers about how great their units are ad nauseum, almost every single one of them has very loud unhappy customers, either from damage in transit, breaking down shortly after arrival, or other no-op problems. Some have even gone so far as to mis-represent the machine’s capabilities. This is truly an area where the saying “let the buyer beware” has its fullest meaning. If you are going to buy from a company that sells or makes concentrators for glassworkers, be sure that you check ALL of the various glass forums to find out what their warranty and guarantee programs are. Find out what their reputation is. And when dealing with a distributor, be absolutely sure you can return the unit without additional cost to you. One distributor charges a 25% restocking fee, which on a several hundred dollar unit can cost you a large sum of money. Another distributor will not deal with service issues, instead referring you back to the manufacturer. Be careful!!!
There is only one seller of concentrators that I would personally trust because I’ve not heard of one single negative comment about her: Kimberly from pyronamix.com. Hers is the best reputation of all the companies out there, both the distributors and manufacturers.
Large volume torches cannot run on concentrators (and small generators). Let’s be honest, frank and up-front about that. They need tanked or liquid oxygen to allow them to run at their fullest potential.
My wife went through this issue as she was learning about beadmaking from Mike Aurelius. She purchased a concentrator from a well-known distributor, but when the unit arrived it was DOA. She had to threaten the distributor with calling the credit card company in order to get the problem resolved. As it finally turned out, she’d been misinformed by the distributor about what torches the concentrator could run, and she returned it and is running happily off of tanked oxygen.
I’m very aware that tanked or liquid oxygen is simply not possible for a lot of folks. And concentrators are the next best (or sometimes worst) thing. Before jumping in, be sure you educate yourself as to what these units are and are not. Don’t make the same mistake my wife and others have made. Don’t let yourself be sold by a voice over the phone or a flashy ad on a distributors’ website.
HollyJo
Customer Service Rep
Aura Visual Concepts, Inc.May 5, 2009 at 10:03 am #1110782Ed wow what a lot of helpful info. But I really thought the MD15 and MD10 where new machines built just for lampworking. Am I in lala land? My glass supplier (Ed Hoy’s) states on their web site that m-15 produces 8 flows per minute and the m10 produces 5 flows per minute. ??
[FONT=Arial]Amy T
Amy T's Esty shop & web site
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May 5, 2009 at 10:31 am #1110789Built up from existing 5 LPM machine parts “especially for lampworking” is what it should actually say.
You mean perhaps CFM, cubic feet per minute.
Most concentrators run about 8 to 10 CFM, but it is the purity you need to be most concerned about.
The optimal purity is achieved at middle-high. On a 5 LPM machine, that would be around 4 to 4.5 LPM. Purity here is going to be around 95-96%. The higher you set the machine, the lower the purity is, this is because the machine is trying to force more room air through the sieve beds than they can handle, so purity drops. It is not unusual to see a 5 LPM machine set a 5 LPM delivering 92% purity.
You need to be more concerned about the purity of the oxygen at the various settings than the CFM rating on the machine. Most machines will generally deliver the needed pressure, you just have to be sure it is at the purity you need. The higher the better, of course.
Tanked oxygen = 98% pure approx.
Liquid oxygen = 100% pure.And there is a difference between concentrator at 96, tanked at 98 and liquid at 100!
HollyJo
Customer Service Rep
Aura Visual Concepts, Inc.May 5, 2009 at 10:45 am #1110783Thanks Ed! It appears that I have more homework to do. I was under the impression both of these machines produce only 95% oxygen. I was not even aware one could control that amount. And of course I really do not understand what difference 95% – 98% – 100% really makes when making a bead.
[FONT=Arial]Amy T
Amy T's Esty shop & web site
[FONT=Verdana]
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