Home Forums Explore Media Drawing and Sketching Anyone else find life drawing uninspiring? Is it worth the time?

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  • #463690

    Dear fellow drawers

    I would be very interested to know how people feel about life drawing. Does anyone else out there find it unexciting, most of the time? I used to love life drawing but lately, I find it generally unenjoyable and, worse, it also seems pointless. I don’t mind being tortured when engaging in art practice :) if it serves a purpose ie you get better but this does not seem to be possible with the way LD is set up at my local group. I’ve been going a couple of years and I don’t see anyone improving. This might be at least partly because we’re drawing models in unnatural, often ugly poses (that the models feel compelled to get into because they think they need to be “interesting”) under terrible lighting conditions (either too dark, in one group I was going to to too light in my current group ie such uncontrolled light levels that there are no shadows). Most poses from most angles look very ungainly when the models feel this “be interesting” compulsion, and you wouldn’t find any great old (or new master) drawings of models in such poses, because they just look weird. Let’s face it, generally the human body, from many angles, is lumpy and graceless. We even had one model decide to get on all fours and then face the opposite will. This was really not a good look. I don’t think models are trained well these days (I say that as a former artist’s model). Anyway, I’d love to hear what others think, because, despite knowing that life drawing is supposed to be THE best drawing practice you can get, I’m wondering how essential it really is and am at the point of thinking that under these conditions it’s a waste of time.

    #715187

    Without proper orientation you do not learn so much from those sessions. The poses need to be selected to study the effect of weight distribution and foreshortening (exactly because those are very hard to learn with other means).

    That is the reason the classic poses include leaning on chairs and other objects.. or people laying or leaning in extreme ways.. If no one has EXPLAINED the model that, they will have no clue of what a good pose is.

    You want to know if it is a waste of time? Close your references.. take a sheet of paper and draw from YOUR MIND someone running, or someone working the field with a pickaxe.. or draw a couple dancing.

    Can you do it? If yes.. then you do not need more live practice.. if not.. you can still learn from the sessions That said someone with a clue need to explain the models what is that for.

    "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

    "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

    #715194

    Without proper orientation you do not learn so much from those sessions. The poses need to be selected to study the effect of weight distribution and foreshortening (exactly because those are very hard to learn with other means).

    That is the reason the classic poses include leaning on chairs and other objects.. or people laying or leaning in extreme ways.. If no one has EXPLAINED the model that, they will have no clue of what a good pose is.

    You want to know if it is a waste of time? Close your references.. take a sheet of paper and draw from YOUR MIND someone running, or someone working the field with a pickaxe.. or draw a couple dancing.

    Can you do it? If yes.. then you do not need more live practice.. if not.. you can still learn from the sessions That said someone with a clue need to explain the models what is that for.

    Thanks Tiago for your considered response. Definitely lots of food for thought here. Unfortunately I dont see anyone explaining to the models how they should pose. People don’t like to be “rude”. This is Australia and despite our reputation for being anti authoritarian, actually it goes against the culture here to complain about things. I did ask one model to change the pose from a flat, lying pose (some of the models “go to ground” as soon as a pose is longer than 10 minutes) and she did so but later got angry with me when the pose she had chosen proved uncomfortable. Sigh….

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that all the poses are under half an hour. I personally feel you need a lot longer than that to really study the body. Maybe i will just have to draw myself nude in the mirror. Now that would be scary. But at least I know what makes a good pose….

    #715180

    I think it all depends on what you wish to accomplish with your art. I generally work from reference photos because I draw slowly and with a high degree of detail. This works well for me as I have little interest in drawing my cats from life. I also enjoy drawing people from the 19th century where photos/paintings are all the references that are available. I have done a number of commissions and found that working from photos is often the only source available (the subject has died or with people, is now significantly older.) Nobody I have run across wants to go through sittings for hours but much prefers to sit for some photos and then be done with it.

    I won’t go into this much, but with only one or two exceptions, the professional artists that I’ve spoken with felt that traditional art school teachers had held them back so that they no longer recommend attending art schools or paying attention to what they generally teach. Regardless of any of that, we have to find our own way with art anyway which is to follow our own hearts. So if you are not enjoying something or improving, what is the point? If you enjoy drawing in general then try a different approach. If drawing has lost it’s appeal, try a different medium.

    #715188

    Thanks Tiago for your considered response. Definitely lots of food for thought here. Unfortunately I dont see anyone explaining to the models how they should pose. People don’t like to be “rude”. This is Australia and despite our reputation for being anti authoritarian, actually it goes against the culture here to complain about things. I did ask one model to change the pose from a flat, lying pose (some of the models “go to ground” as soon as a pose is longer than 10 minutes) and she did so but later got angry with me when the pose she had chosen proved uncomfortable. Sigh….

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that all the poses are under half an hour. I personally feel you need a lot longer than that to really study the body. Maybe i will just have to draw myself nude in the mirror. Now that would be scary. But at least I know what makes a good pose….

    The idea is not to held the pose for longer. You are not there to learn to copy what you see. They should take breaks and return to the pose later.. EVEN if slightly different, that is not a problem! You are NOT supposed to be doing a COPY when learning figure drawing.

    Figure drawing is never about what you do when you portrait something, it is about LEARNING the subject… the human figure is the subject our brain most likely will find and detect any issue and that is why it needs more practice than any other.

    Check works of artists like Frank Frazetta… like 95% of his works were REFERENCELESS! But he learned the human figure like the back of his hand before he was able to do that! He probably knew more about human muscles behavior than most M.Doctors do.

    "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

    "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

    #715195

    Tiago, I didn’t mean I have a problem with the model taking breaks–far from it. We all need breaks, at least every 20 to 30 minutes. I meant the poses are generally 10 to 15 mins long with the occasional 30 min pose, in total. That’s not long enough to gain a good understanding of the body or pose. We used to have 3 hour poses at art school, with a break every 25 minutes. Also I’m not actually interested in copying, but understanding and interpreting.

    As for Frank Frazetta, he wouldn’t have been happy with the setup at most life drawing groups these days, I suspect..

    #715182
    Wassie
    Default

        I paid a lot of money for workshops in life drawing. My portraits looked just like the models, but there was no spark or spontaneity in them. Also, I needed longer time on the poses. I decided to not go back to any live model workshops. I find more interesting subjects from photos that are taken when the model isn’t posing. I work in a lot of detail and the photo gives me plenty of time to do that.

        #715196

        I think it all depends on what you wish to accomplish with your art. I generally work from reference photos because I draw slowly and with a high degree of detail. This works well for me as I have little interest in drawing my cats from life. I also enjoy drawing people from the 19th century where photos/paintings are all the references that are available. I have done a number of commissions and found that working from photos is often the only source available (the subject has died or with people, is now significantly older.) Nobody I have run across wants to go through sittings for hours but much prefers to sit for some photos and then be done with it.

        I won’t go into this much, but with only one or two exceptions, the professional artists that I’ve spoken with felt that traditional art school teachers had held them back so that they no longer recommend attending art schools or paying attention to what they generally teach. Regardless of any of that, we have to find our own way with art anyway which is to follow our own hearts. So if you are not enjoying something or improving, what is the point? If you enjoy drawing in general then try a different approach. If drawing has lost it’s appeal, try a different medium.

        I agree with you on many points here, especially when you say we have to find our own way and follow our hearts. That is so true yet something we regularly need reminding of as artists. I do enjoy drawing but prefer to have a bit more control over the subject and as time is growing short (I’m getting older) it seems onerous to be engaging in something that produces nothing worthwhile, because it’s theoretically good practice.

        I’m interested in your comments about professional artists finding the traditional teachings unhelpful. Here we generally had the opposite problem of not being taught anything rigorous at art school in case it crushed our creativity. However I feel like I float somewhat ambivalently between the two poles of expressionism and realism. An excess of the former leads to artistic chaos while too much realism can become quite sterile.

        Anyway, thanks for sharing your own experience. Very interesting. We do need to avoid hard and fast rules like ” you must draw from life!” etc. Who can afford models? How many of us can go out camping in the fields to do pleine air painting? So we use what we’ve got and what works for us.

        I must say, also, as a cat lover, that your cat drawings are lovely. You’ve really captured something in them. And yes, I’m quite sure they would not cooperate with posing for you if you wanted to draw them “from life”.

        #715197

        I paid a lot of money for workshops in life drawing. My portraits looked just like the models, but there was no spark or spontaneity in them. Also, I needed longer time on the poses. I decided to not go back to any live model workshops. I find more interesting subjects from photos that are taken when the model isn’t posing. I work in a lot of detail and the photo gives me plenty of time to do that.

        Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. Out of curiosity, how long were the longer poses during the workshops?

        #715206
        SeanInDublin
        Default

            Since the start of this year I have been going to a three hour Life Drawing session each week. I find it is a valuable experience.

            It is administered by a local artists collective so the cost is moderate.

            My teacher stresses the importance of drawing from observation and I have found Life Drawing to be a great way to practice and develop my skills.

            The restricted time is something I see as a strong positive influence over the process. It seems good for me to be taken out of my comfort zone and to simplify things. At home I have the radio on and all the time and coffee I could want :rolleyes:

            I find it is fun to use the format to experiment with different media and techniques too.

            Classically it was often charcoal on newsprint paper because the results were less important than the practice. I think this is true for me and I don’t look for “finished” work out of the sessions.

            As a small proportion of the time I spend each week drawing it’s certainly worth doing.

            Best wishes..:)

            #715198

            Since the start of this year I have been going to a three hour Life Drawing session each week. I find it is a valuable experience.

            It is administered by a local artists collective so the cost is moderate.

            My teacher stresses the importance of drawing from observation and I have found Life Drawing to be a great way to practice and develop my skills.

            The restricted time is something I see as a strong positive influence over the process. It seems good for me to be taken out of my comfort zone and to simplify things. At home I have the radio on and all the time and coffee I could want :rolleyes:

            I find it is fun to use the format to experiment with different media and techniques too.

            Classically it was often charcoal on newsprint paper because the results were less important than the practice. I think this is true for me and I don’t look for “finished” work out of the sessions.

            As a small proportion of the time I spend each week drawing it’s certainly worth doing.

            Best wishes..:)

            Thanks Sean. I used to feel that way about it too. I could probably accept the short poses if the lighting was better. Maybe I was spoilt at art school because the models were always lit really well, creating interesting shadows which helped to highlight the form.

            #715207
            SeanInDublin
            Default

                Thanks Sean. I used to feel that way about it too. I could probably accept the short poses if the lighting was better. Maybe I was spoilt at art school because the models were always lit really well, creating interesting shadows which helped to highlight the form.

                I would love to be able to bring a good photographers lighting setup to our Life Drawing session. It would be difficult to suit everyone in the room I’d imagine.

                I suspect that I will need to find a model and suitable studio space for a photo shoot to get what I would really like. This is quite feasible for me to do, thankfully. I will sadly lose the “from observation” element of course.

                It’s possible that you may be better off taking a new path rather than feeling your time is not well spent. We are all on different directions after all.

                Is there a different session you might try available to you? I am lucky to have several choices, although I’m happy for now.

                Best wishes…:)

                #715199

                I would love to be able to bring a good photographers lighting setup to our Life Drawing session. It would be difficult to suit everyone in the room I’d imagine.

                I suspect that I will need to find a model and suitable studio space for a photo shoot to get what I would really like. This is quite feasible for me to do, thankfully. I will sadly lose the “from observation” element of course.

                It’s possible that you may be better off taking a new path rather than feeling your time is not well spent. We are all on different directions after all.

                Is there a different session you might try available to you? I am lucky to have several choices, although I’m happy for now.

                Best wishes…:)

                Thanks Sean

                Good advice. I had planned to try somewhere else. And yes, photographers’ lighting equipment seems to be the way to go, expensive as that is.

                Happy drawing!

                #715183
                Wassie
                Default

                    When I took a live model class, the instructor told the model how to pose. Even, so, I prefer to paint from photos I’ve taken.

                    #715192
                    marksmomagain
                    Default

                        Interesting feedback everyone… I’ve been contemplating finding a life drawing class as I’ve never done this before. I work many of my Portraits from life, but have always wanted to take a class with other students and an instructor.

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