Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor Watercolor Studio Merphy’s Law WIP. Help needed.

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  • #461562

    Here is a challenging problem for you all.

    I’m currently working on a Lillie botanical illustration where everything went completely wrong.

    Long story sort.

    My Saunders Waterford 425 gsm HP paper’s sizing literally disappeared while I was painting it.When I tried to apply some kind of light background in order to hide somehow the faults on the paper’s surface I saw the colours going through the paper and appear on its underside. I don’t paint wet on wet and the background application wasn’t that much watery either.

    The paper was one of the ten sheets that I bought in an otherwise sealed in its plastic wrap package that was in a carton box.

    Anyway… At the stage that the painting is, it needs some final touches, I’m not going to abandon it. So I need you help.

    Take a look please at some photos of the painting and I would appreciate the/any suggestions that you can offer in order to save/ finish this painting.

    Photos.

    Here is the front side. ( shot under direct sunlight in order to be clear- some shadows from the trees outside included). This is the appearance!

    And here is the back side of the painting.. this is the disappearance !

    As you can see the colours were sucked into the paper and appeared on its underside.

    And bellow are some details.
    The background has some visible patches of colour that are not so disturbing from distance but still exist.


    And below is a photo of the painting on the wall. Look how darkened is the paper towards the edges ( what the heck!:confused: ). It seems like the sizing moved somehow towards the edges of the paper, or like the paper has somehow deteriorated there at the edges.

    This doesn’t make any sense to me as I bought these papers sealed in their plastic wrap. And they were not all the papers of the package faulty.

    How can I hide the darkened edges? Should I wet the paper and apply a light wash of white gouache?
    Or perhaps make a super dark background?

    I’m open to any suggestions ideas, hacks and tricks. :(

    #689080
    Catspeare
    Default

        I can’t help you with your issues with the paper, but I can certainly see why you don’t want to give up on the painting….it is gorgeous!

        Re the “super dark background” you yourself suggest, I think that might not serve the beauty of your painting well, due to the already super darks you have in the flowers and leaves themselves. A dark background might detract from the impact of the darks you have in the painting. Just a concern…

        Cat

        #689067

        You are right. A super dark background would look out of place in this painting.

        I’ve just tried the white gouache wash towards the edges and I also added another wash of cobalt blue on the light blue areas.. I’m sure that it will end on the under side of the paper ( this paper has a black hole obviously that sucks everything into the inside ha ha ha ). I’m waiting now to dry.. it will probably take ages…

        Well.. Saunders ought to sent me a new package of papers. It seems that these papers were faulty from the very beginning. I can understand that the first and the last sheet of a package might have some damage if the packages are stored the one above the other, but the sheets in between shouldn’t have such sizing problems especially especially by the time that their plastic wrap was intact.
        :( :( :(

        #689082
        Zeldaquatic
        Default

            I think you should not do anything more on your painting , it’s so wonderful like this even on a bad batch of paper but maybe only ask the seller of the paper, because Saunders Waterford 425 gsm is quite expensive paper, or maybe it’s counterfeit ?

            #689068

            I think you should not do anything more on your painting , it’s so wonderful like this even on a bad batch of paper but maybe only ask the seller of the paper, because Saunders Waterford 425 gsm is quite expensive paper, or maybe it’s counterfeit ?

            It is not a counterfeit. It has the watermark on the sides of the paper. I’ve just cropped from the very beginning the deckle edges.

            #689069

            I’ll let it dry and then I’ll finish the flowers. And If there are still any patches on the background I’ll let them be. I don’t know what else to do.
            It is a pity though to buy such a heavy weight and expensive paper and end up with such a mess.
            I haven’t seen again such a failed sizing in my life. Never before.

            #689075
            shadye1
            Default

                One of my favourite flowers, they look absolutely amazing! and they certainly override any paper faults real or imagined. I love it.

                #689081
                Merriweather
                Default

                    [QUOTE=MarialenaS]Here is a challenging problem for you all.

                    I’m currently working on a Lillie botanical illustration where everything went completely wrong.

                    Long story sort.

                    My Saunders Waterford 425 gsm HP paper’s sizing literally disappeared while I was painting it.When I tried to apply some kind of light background in order to hide somehow the faults on the paper’s surface I saw the colours going through the paper and appear on its underside. I don’t paint wet on wet and the background application wasn’t that much watery either.

                    The paper was one of the ten sheets that I bought in an otherwise sealed in its plastic wrap package that was in a carton box.

                    Anyway… At the stage that the painting is, it needs some final touches, I’m not going to abandon it. So I need you help.

                    Take a look please at some photos of the painting and I would appreciate the/any suggestions that you can offer in order to save/ finish this painting.

                    Photos.

                    As you can see the colours were sucked into the paper and appeared on its underside.

                    Hi Marialena,

                    Firstly I have to say, your painting of iris’s is gorgeous. :clap:

                    Secondly, re the paper…. I see you are using HP

                    I recently bought a stack of 10 sheets of Saunders Waterford 300gsm but CP. They were selling at a good price, and I wanted to have some spare paper… and the paper is fine.. Will never be my favourite, but it is OK.

                    I have also had similar trouble with HP – Canson Heritage. – soaking up the paint.

                    As I painted, the paper acted like a blotter…. it soaked up all the paint. I was so disappointed. I did finish the painting, only because I had done so much prep work with it, but I struggled. !!!:(

                    I am a bit dodgy now re hot press which I really like in other brands.

                    I often wonder if they change paper formulas… I dont know

                    Good luck though, your painting is delightful.

                    cheers Merriweather.

                    Painting is a complete distraction. I know of nothing which, without exhausting the body, more entirely absorbs the mind. Winston Churchill

                    #689070

                    It seems that your Canson Heritage had a faulty sizing too. It is awful when the sizing fails. I’m currently painting on super expensive blotting paper. Or kitchen paper..ha ha ha…
                    Well… let me tell you what I did in order to get rid of this yellowness on the edges.
                    I glazed the background with countless glazes of very diluted white gouache. As it was expected the paper sucked the gouache but after a lot of washes it finally changed colour.

                    It looks now slightly greyish but not dirty yellowish with dirty brownish edges.
                    Saunders Waterford white isn’t the whiter of white papers but on this particular paper it seems like the sizing was washed out from the centre of he paper towards the edges.
                    (Can something like this happen? :confused: What the heck..:confused: )
                    The matter is that I didn’t wash it and I didn’t stretch it ( it is 425 gsm after all ) and I didn’t made the initial background with very heavy washes.

                    Anyway.. I worked further the blue of the background ( all my cobalt blue is goooone…:crying: It sucked it.. boo hoo hoo) and here is how it looked like earlier hanged on the wall while it was drying.

                    From close it looks like I made it on coated carton.The one that I used once upon a time when I was a student to paint acrylics. That bad..:lol:

                    And methinks.. If I am to paint of papers that behave like blotting papers, or cheap cartons or repel the paint or suck it on the inside, what do I pay that much money for? Because that damn paper costed me 9 euros per sheet in discount. :cool:

                    Anyway.. my problem is now what to do with the details.
                    I’m thinking to switch to a dip pen. Or very dry thin brush. I don’t think that the paper is in a condition to keep any clear crisp brushstroke lines.

                    You see I don’t have any watercolour pencils. If I had a few in the colour of the flowers I would finish it with them.

                    What a mess…:(

                    #689071

                    HA… I’ve just had a very wicked thought.
                    Wait to see what is going to happen when I’ll scan it!
                    (scream)… ha ha ha

                    #689077
                    Kaylen
                    Default

                        Maria,(Hope that is right),I am not technically advanced, but you have helped me often, My only thought would be to make some kind of pattern of similar spots to camouflage them,,,I have hat that issue in the past, also on expensive 300 lbs paper ,but in my case it was an abstract that didn’t matter

                        Kaylen Savoie
                        https://www.savoieartist.com/
                        At least twice a year,paint something better than you ever painted before.

                        #689072

                        Maria,(Hope that is right),I am not technically advanced, but you have helped me often, My only thought would be to make some kind of pattern of similar spots to camouflage them,,,I have hat that issue in the past, also on expensive 300 lbs paper ,but in my case it was an abstract that didn’t matter

                        Marialena. :)
                        I’ve whitened the background with white gouache and so the spots and the stains in the edges are not visible any more.
                        Now that the paper is dried, the background where at least was supposed to be left white looks quite even.

                        But I wouldn’t say that is a watercolour painting any more…:lol: It is a watercolour painting on a bleed to the underside gouache background!

                        I’ll try to finish the flowers – I was waiting for the paper to dry completely – and we’ll see how is going to go.

                        I’m going in blind I don’t know how the paper is going to react from now on. It don’t think that there is any sizing left on its surface.

                        Can the sizing of a paper deteriorate and dry – to say it this way- that much that can leave from the surface while you are painting it. I mean to stick on your hands or clothes or whatever touches the surface of the paper?
                        I’m asking because I can’t otherwise explain how the sizing of the areas that I applied the background disappeared while I was painting the rest. ( the flowers).
                        When it came the time to apply the background the sizing simply wasn’t there any more and the paper started to suck the paint of the background.

                        I didn’t use that heavy washes on my initial attempt to make the background. But if you see the underside of the painting ( above on the first post) you’ll see that the sizing first deteriorated on the area of the background. The paint didn’t bleed through the flowers’ area.
                        So I assume that the sizing was so dry and faulty that stuck on my hands while I was painting the flowers.

                        I can’t find any other logical explanation. Where did the sizing go? :lol: :confused:

                        #689078
                        Kaylen
                        Default

                            I just got an idea for an experiment,,,not for this painting but for a future,,,I wonder if sizing could be applied thick and juicy from the backside of a painting in progress that could stop the action?I saw those recipes that you linked to the other day and I think I will mix up a batch and then see if that would work, would not be a bad idea to have some on hand

                            Kaylen Savoie
                            https://www.savoieartist.com/
                            At least twice a year,paint something better than you ever painted before.

                            #689073

                            I don’t think that it would work. If the paint could bleed through the paper on its underside then the sizing would be able to bleed through on the front side. And it would make patches on the already coloured areas.

                            I thought for a moment to gesso the back side. But then I thought that this would be risky if the paper sucked the gesso and got patches of gesso in the front.

                            #689079
                            Kaylen
                            Default

                                I agree , too risky for that one , but worth an experiment on a test paper for future knowledge

                                Kaylen Savoie
                                https://www.savoieartist.com/
                                At least twice a year,paint something better than you ever painted before.

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