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  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-12-2016, 02:57 AM
Hoplite Hoplite is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Be really careful about converting a fountain pen to eye dropper. Your hand directly holds the barrel, warming any air inside, causing it to expand, and since the ink doesn't compress, it wants to go to a lower pressure...oops, drip. Now, it may give warning because you'll notice the line is getting awfully wet. Also be careful about altitude changes (going to Yosemite this weekend).

Fountain pen ink to consider: De Atramentis Document Ink. Waterproof, lightfast. Numerous colors (I only have the black and brown). Doesn't stand up to erasing as well as my normal India ink (Pelikan Drawing Ink A), but hey, it works in any fountain pen that I've put it in without a problem. Allegedly works in a Pentel Brush pen and Kuretake natural hair brush pens, but haven't tried it yet.

And I suppose there's always this gray area about brushes, but a lot of work that is referred to pen and ink is actually brush and ink. I don't let India ink into my expensive watercolor brushes (India ink gets its own brushes), but brush and ink can be very expressive.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:00 AM
Torrilin Torrilin is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Yeah, I haven't tried it yet, no first hand experience. An eyedropper conversion can seem like a very cheap and efficient way to get amazing ink supply, and for some people it seems to work well. But for most of us, a converter is a worthwhile expense.

I do have a Pentel pocket brush pen which I love. I'm not very good with it at all, but it pushes me to work with the lines I make the first time. And I am ever so gradually getting better at getting fine line out of it. And it and the Pentel water brushes are a good way to get brush and ink practice without ruining expensive brushes. They don't let you do "proper" sumi-e work as near as I can tell, but the start up cost is low, and many of the sumi-e principles seem to apply.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:59 AM
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waynetully1 waynetully1 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

I use a lot of the professional brands of ink pens such as Pigma microns, uni-pin fine liners and pigma brush pens as well as the pentel brush pens too.

I find that using the black waterproof type are better for the purposes of my own illustrations and I can choose whether or not to watercolor my art or not and it helps protect against accidental spillages of red wine, although it will obviously leave a red stain, the inkwork is still intact lol

I use the white gelly roll sakura ink pens to contrast against the black ink pens I use, creating some cool effects and illustrations, more like a sculpting process of finding dark and light along the way.

Used to use really cheap gel ink pens and while they stood the test of time and didn't fade, I prefer to use my pro choice brands of ink pen and will do for some time.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:32 PM
niteowl333 niteowl333 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Thanks pedlars pen Katwalk, Torilin for your replies

Yes im in the uk, I order all my art stuff of amazon.co.uk or else greatart.co.uk

Recieved my Gel pens but still waiting on the peppery and carbon black ink as its conmimg from china! yes wil follow that advice to wash the pen and keep the ink flowing

Really pleased with the gel pens really fine lines, nice n dark ink, but there not as easy to blend as bik pens, they seem you give just lines rather the abilty to blend and shade ect like you can with pencils and bik pens.

Been looking at my portaits in bik pens, they seem to have faded to a light geryish/blueish colour, im sure when i first done them they were much blacker than this!!!!!

So yep bik pens do fade with time !

Been looking on u tube just typed in relalistic pen portrait artists , some incredible relalistic portrits on there, INCRDEOBLE!!!! really photo realistic, they use time lapse speeded up video so you cant really see what pens there using but the results are breathtaking!

Fabio rangel seems to be one of the best artists

Hes on face book and u tube heres a link to some of his work on u tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UakDspt_nEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6M8bMW_PKE

But they seem to be using a cominbination of pencil AND pen/ink pens ? didnt realsie we cud d that, though it was one medium or the other!

Just wondering do any other pen/ink artists use a combination of peccil to achive sutble shading and skin blends and then use dark black ink pens for dark shadow line work ?

If so do we have to put the ink in first and then the pencil on top or doesnt it matter ? id of asssumed that the ink needs applied first to go into the paper and then u applie pencil over it ? or doent it matter ?

I note also that some of these top artists are using what looks like white ink for highlights? does any one else use these white ink pens?

Goodness me , who would of thought doing a few pictures wud be so complicated ! so many materials and impliments to choose from!!! !

Ive now oredered the following pens ; -
Gelly roll medium point pen - white
uni-ball signo um-153 rolerball pen - white
pentel 1.0mm hrbrid gel grip ultra smooth pigment pen - white
rottering tikky graphic fine liner 0.30mm - black
uni-ball pin drawing pen - black
staedtler pigment liner technicak drawing pen 0.4mm - black
Thought i may as well get some think ultra smooth A3 bristol board 2 !

Will try again by the weekend to upload one of my portrait images, but im a bit overwelmed by the top artists, some really incredible life like stuff they produce! but i reckon i can do just as good now that I know there not only using black ink pens, but also pencil and white pens for the highlights!!!
Ps tried to upload one of my images to the RIL but were not approved for the RIL because they are personal artwork and, as such, is not allowed in the RIL.
Back to the drawing board!!!!
Will try again to uplaod, as been mentioned think im trying to uplaod images that are to many pixels and to large in size ect so will reduce them and try again!
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:37 PM
niteowl333 niteowl333 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

ps as waynetully1 says he uses the Gelly roll white pens - so im definilty on the right path!!!
Never heard of them before untill latley, no wonder these top artists can produce incredible portraits as there using white pens 2 for the highlights!
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:23 PM
pedlars pen pedlars pen is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

I usually don't use a white pen at all but can see how one could be pressed into service or even become a often used tool.
Occasionally I use a "UNI correction pen" this gives what it says on the side of the pen- a totally opaque white which can be drawn over with any type of pen or ink , the ink doesn't bleed at all on top of it BUT is only suitable for drawings destined to be copied & reproduced & not for originals. (as it does have some noticeable thickness about it.)
I suppose it probably is a correction pen rather than a pen for somebody wanting a white to draw with, however it is the best of it's kind by a mile that I am aware of.
Mike
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:15 AM
niteowl333 niteowl333 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedlars pen
I usually don't use a white pen at all but can see how one could be pressed into service or even become a often used tool.
Occasionally I use a "UNI correction pen" this gives what it says on the side of the pen- a totally opaque white which can be drawn over with any type of pen or ink , the ink doesn't bleed at all on top of it BUT is only suitable for drawings destined to be copied & reproduced & not for originals. (as it does have some noticeable thickness about it.)
I suppose it probably is a correction pen rather than a pen for somebody wanting a white to draw with, however it is the best of it's kind by a mile that I am aware of.
Mike

Check out those links pedlars pen I put up, u should be able to see the benefits of using a white pen ?
The pupil teaching the master hey ? Lol sorry only kidding , but it's allways good to get feedback from other artists and see what there doing, ect it's how we learn !
I'm new to pen art work, normally I've been doing portraits in oil were i can blend colours ect on the large 4 by 3 foot canvas, so pen is a whole new ball game to me.
Sum times use conte crayon and black graphite pencils 2 !
But it's good to try new things and experiment with different media ect


I'm going to try ink pen, pencil and white ink to try and produce some incredible portraits !
As the original ones I've done in bik pen have faded, but suppose I cud freshen em up with black Ink and pencil and white pen so they will last a long time and not fade.
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:44 AM
niteowl333 niteowl333 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

If you all look on face book or even type In fabio rangel into your search engine you will see the incredible portraits this guy is doing in pen , pencil and white pen.


I can't resist photo realism in portraits but then again love expressionism and surrealism stuff 2!
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Old 05-17-2016, 04:56 AM
pedlars pen pedlars pen is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Hi niteowl , while I really enjoy seeing your enthusiastic search into mediums & experimenting with various combinations of them- it is not personally for me.
Read the bottom post on this page on another current thread to get an insight as to where I'm coming from - http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...391832&page=18

I'm not comfortable with the label of being called a P&I "purist" - but I must reluctantly accept it in the face of a lot of peoples approach here !

I do think you are right to look further than pens though if photorealistic type work is part of your thing , as outside of a pure stippling technique it is not a pens natural style at all.
I would say that pencil & pen in the same drawing doesn't really work when I think of all the attempts I've seen , they are two entirely different mediums & one takes away from the other if used in equal amounts.
On the one hand you have the cleanliness & sheer power of pure pen & ink & on the other you have the infinitely variable tones of pencil , the pencil drawing is made harsh by the addition of pen & the pen is weakened & diluted by the adding of the pencil .

BTW. I'm in the UK. too - Are you aware of http://www.cultpens.com/ they have every pen under the sun & an excellent service as well.
Cheers Mike
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:26 AM
katwalk katwalk is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Niteowl

I am mostly in the same camp as Mike, I am currently playing with ink as outline with colored pencil work, but I don't consider those works pen and ink, but colored pencil. For my ink work I use strictly ink and while I may use/play with colored inks I don't use (or even own) white ink. Nor do I put ink with graphite, if I am drawing in pencil I am drawing in pencil, and while I may do under drawings in pencil for ink I erase them out at some point.

I understand the drive to do photo realistic work, been there, done that, but honestly I now don't find that type of work appealing, yes it impresses those who don't do art, but it doesn't have soul, not the sitters (if it is a portrait), not the artists, and why make art unless you are expressing yourself? You can make a pen and ink portrait that looks like the sitter while by no stretch is it photo realistic. Just something to think about for the future. But I know I was a bit driven to work semi photo realistically until I could but I am now trying to get away from that, it wasn't enough for me once I reached a certain skill level. I would like to think of myself as an artist not a copyist.

Course I am not above playing around with ink, which is why I am playing with ink on top of watercolor washes at the moment. Not to everyone's taste but I am having fun . Do what makes you happy, but know that the rest of us will be doing the same thing (working in a way that makes us happy), and to be honest pure pen and ink can be enough of a challenge to keep many of us occupied and happy for years.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:01 AM
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Batman55 Batman55 is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedlars pen
I usually don't use a white pen at all but can see how one could be pressed into service or even become a often used tool.
Occasionally I use a "UNI correction pen" this gives what it says on the side of the pen- a totally opaque white which can be drawn over with any type of pen or ink , the ink doesn't bleed at all on top of it BUT is only suitable for drawings destined to be copied & reproduced & not for originals. (as it does have some noticeable thickness about it.)

I'm going to have to disagree on this point.. correction is, after all, part of the art-making process! IMHO I don't think a buyer of an original would care very much if white ink was used for some tweaks in an ink drawing.

About the UNI White Pen 153.. it is the best of its kind, but flows very poorly, gets jammed super-easily, and eventually dries up entirely even with 90% of the ink unused. It is excellent, but has some serious flaws that actually require *research* to be done so you can avoid them! There is apparently a specific way to store the pen, ways to get it unclogged, all of which I was ignorant of and after just a little bit of use, I had to throw the thing out!

The Gelly Roll White Pen is easily the most accessible white pen, it flows almost perfectly and can be unclogged by just drawing circle-shapes. But the "white" is not nearly opaque enough.

What can we say.. no pen is perfect!
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:04 AM
pedlars pen pedlars pen is offline
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Re: The Different Types of Pens Used by Artists

[quote=Batman55]I'm going to have to disagree on this point.. correction is, after all, part of the art-making process! IMHO I don't think a buyer of an original would care very much if white ink was used for some tweaks in an ink drawing.

[quote]

I don't quite get what you are disagreeing with ?
I'm going much further than you & saying there may well be instances where the use of a white pen may be deliberately used as part of a planned picture making strategy to good effect & not merely as an emergency correction tool.
However like you say white pens are not very developed & there are none that I am aware of that are sophisticated enough to use as a every day tool on original work.
I have only ever very occasionally used them for corrective type work & even then only for work which is to be printed or used on line & never for original display.

I wish there was a good white pen that was 1. opaque enough & 2. you could draw over when dry. & 3. gave a fine line .
The UNI correction pen I mention above wins on 1 & 2 but falls down at 3 & leaves a visible thick "troweled on" patch.
"Windsor & Newton white calligraphy ink" is the closest available ideal ink for actual drawing purposes , you have to put it on with a dip pen & it has to be a pretty thick wet line - so no chance of spidery subtly applied lines.
If you want to go back over with a black it is very particular about what type of pen you use - a "micron or Uni-pin" seem to be about best for that BUT it will wear them out very quickly.
No there is no good or even viable white inks to use in a really fine line drawing that I am aware of.

Mike

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