Home › Forums › The Learning Center › Color Theory and Mixing › Question about sales of pigment PR254
- This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 9 months ago by SteveBerry.
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November 2, 2015 at 5:01 am #993535
Hello, everyone!
I mentioned this already in the oils forum, but I can get pigments at very large quantities. If I got a supply of Pyrrole Red Medium (PR 254) and offered it to you guys for half of Kremer’s price (Kremer is $18.00 for 100g), would you be willing to buy it?
I also have options of offering Dioxazine Purple (PV 23) and Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122).
November 4, 2015 at 2:46 am #1241564I think the truth is that only a small minority or artists use dry pigments to make their own paints. Of course the ones who do would be interested I am sure. My question would be about the quality. Are these high quality pigments from say BASF or Clariant, or cheaper pigments from China or India. There are also quite a few different versions of PR254 and PR122. Which ones are they?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
November 4, 2015 at 4:17 am #1241566I think the truth is that only a small minority or artists use dry pigments to make their own paints. Of course the ones who do would be interested I am sure. My question would be about the quality. Are these high quality pigments from say BASF or Clariant, or cheaper pigments from China or India. There are also quite a few different versions of PR254 and PR122. Which ones are they?
Brian, pigments are made by the tons in India and China. What makes them better is not the place they are manufactured, but quality assurance. BASF and Clariant probably enforce very high quality assurance on their pigments so that suppliers wouldn’t try to pull their legs. It’s up to suppliers (in this case, me) to perform the quality assurance for you and report the lightfastness to the buyer.
I don’t have PR 254 yet, but I have PR 122. Compared to Winsor & Newton’s Quinacridone Magenta (PR 122), it’s warmer, slightly redder, slightly less saturated and coarser (grinding will make it more saturated and bluer). I haven’t done an extensive test – only a masstone test – but, for the one year I tested it, the masstone didn’t seem to have faded one bit. I believe one reason why the lightfastness is so good is precisely because it seems to have a larger particle size, but I can’t pinpoint lightfastness precisely to that. I have posted a photo here on Wetcanvas of that PR 122 alone, but I can’t find it yet. I’ll see if I can find it for you.
November 7, 2015 at 12:14 am #1241573Is this a one time thing for you? I’ve already made my quarterly purchases but would be intetested after the first of the year. But I’d want more to choose from as well. Let me know.
-wendy
[FONT=Palatino Linotype]"I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day."
-Jean-Michel Basquiat [FONT=Palatino Linotype]
Boy and Dog in a JohnnypumpNovember 7, 2015 at 3:52 am #1241570As I know, there is only one manufacturer in the world, which produce PR254. BASF has not patent to make it. The only Clariant can make it. People, who are using or have PR254 can get it only from Clariant supply or Clariant factory.
“Cheaper China manufacturers” or “Cheaper India manufacturers” can only steal PR254 from Clariant factory or can try to dilute pure pigment, previously bought from real manufacturer.
You can do paint swatch to show people how it works, Mythrill!November 7, 2015 at 5:18 am #1241567Is this a one time thing for you? I’ve already made my quarterly purchases but would be intetested after the first of the year. But I’d want more to choose from as well. Let me know.
-wendy
Hi, Wendy! It depends if there’s demand. If people are interested, then I can keep purchasing it.
As I know, there is only one manufacturer in the world, which produce PR254. BASF has not patent to make it. The only Clariant can make it.
Where did you get this information from, Giga?
“Cheaper China manufacturers” or “Cheaper India manufacturers” can only steal PR254 from Clariant factory or can try to dilute pure pigment, previously bought from real manufacturer.
Diluting pigment? By the tons?
I don’t think that’s how it works, Giga. Anyone with the pigment specs can reproduce it. It may not be made from the official manufacturer (if this pigment has one), but it can be just as good, or even better.
You can do paint swatch to show people how it works, Mythrill!
If I get PR 254, I’ll be happy to paint a swatch and post it here.
November 7, 2015 at 10:30 pm #1241565As I know, there is only one manufacturer in the world, which produce PR254. BASF has not patent to make it. The only Clariant can make it. People, who are using or have PR254 can get it only from Clariant supply or Clariant factory.
“Cheaper China manufacturers” or “Cheaper India manufacturers” can only steal PR254 from Clariant factory or can try to dilute pure pigment, previously bought from real manufacturer.
You can do paint swatch to show people how it works, Mythrill!No, quite a few companies make PR254 now in various versions. BASF and Clariant do both make it as well as offer multiple versions. Other companies, such as Heubach, Lansco and Dominion Color Corp make it as well as many other Chinese and Indian pigment manufacturers. It is even available as a transparent version with the PR254 color index. Even Handprint.com’s dated information list three manufacturers of PR254. I can assure you that most of the popular pigments are made by multiple manufacturers.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
November 8, 2015 at 8:00 am #1241572Even Handprint.com’s dated information list three manufacturers of PR254. I can assure you that most of the popular pigments are made by multiple manufacturers.
Handprint’s info about number of manufacturers producing certain pigment isn’t limited to PR254 (just my $0.02)
November 9, 2015 at 10:22 pm #1241575Don’t waste our precious PR254 pigment on crappy homemade paint :/
Use naphthol or cadmium or something.
November 10, 2015 at 6:10 am #1241568Don’t waste our precious PR254 pigment on crappy homemade paint :/
Use naphthol or cadmium or something.
Nanana, I’m not sure what you are talking about. Homemade paint is not as consistent as industrial paint, but a big plus is that it has very high pigment load. Plus, you can customize handling, the exact shade, etc.
November 13, 2015 at 1:44 am #1241574Don’t waste our precious PR254 pigment on crappy homemade paint :/
Use naphthol or cadmium or something.
I agree with Mythrill. Making your own allows you to have control over the pigment load, viscosity etc. and saves money. The quality of the binders etc. are up to you. I cook from scratch and/or grow a lot of our food for similar reasons. I can control the salt, fat, sugar and so on while saving money.
Anytime you buy something you can make yourself you’re paying for the convenience. The monetary cost of that convenience can be pretty high. On the other hand, time is precious too. So ultimately it’s a question of personal preference.
-wendy
[FONT=Palatino Linotype]"I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day."
-Jean-Michel Basquiat [FONT=Palatino Linotype]
Boy and Dog in a JohnnypumpNovember 19, 2015 at 10:08 pm #1241563Nanana, I’m not sure what you are talking about. Homemade paint is not as consistent as industrial paint, but a big plus is that it has very high pigment load. Plus, you can customize handling, the exact shade, etc.
I’m sure you can control the quality, but you also have to know what you’re doing to create a quality product that will remain properly bound. I’m pleased with the brands that I use for art materials, and would rather put my creative energy into painting vs. chemistry. That’s just me. . .
November 20, 2015 at 4:05 pm #1241571I’m pleased with the brands that I use for art materials, and would rather put my creative energy into painting vs. chemistry. That’s just me. . .
Then why you put creative energy to mix paint with medium? If you hate chemistry and love HQ tubed paint, squeeze it on palette and apply on canvas. But if you are trying to modify this “perfect” paint, making it “hommemade”, that means it is not initially perfect. It is crappy until you mix it with medium.
April 3, 2016 at 1:09 pm #1241576Don’t waste our precious PR254 pigment on crappy homemade paint :/
Use naphthol or cadmium or something.
Sounds very much like you were unsuccessful !!!
July 13, 2016 at 5:23 am #1241569I just got half a kilo for free! sample pack!
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