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  • #994053
    zymon
    Default

        Hi All,

        Im a newbie. So I was deciding to start out with a pallete of 6 main colours and use those to mix everything to learn more.

        But after reading Artist Guide to Mixing Watercolours I an now tending towards her vision. She says that you can get brighter more vivid colours if you use less in the mix. So if i get a few more paints for example warm and cool secondaries then it will be easier and less messing about when mixing neutrals and Tertiaries.

        The book shows some lovely colours and uses lots of Paynes grey and shock horror black, with very nice results.

        I’m a bit confused now, but I like the idea of speeding up and simplifying the mixing process.

        Any thoughts or advise anyone?

        Simon

        #1250997
        indraneel
        Default

            There are two very long threads here about the 6 color and 12 color palette, complete with polls. IMHO, for a beginner, a 6 color secondary palette would be a good thing. No need to start out being completely confused. Probably best to start out with just one color, but I could never manage that…

            PS: right now I’m taking a 20 min break in between making pastels. it’s actually teaching me way more about mixing and color theory than painting!

            #1251015

            Theoretically if you use less colours you learn how to mix. In practice when you use more colours, you paint what you want EXACTLY as you want it and if you are a beginner you trouble less your self.
            The less colours that I use in my colour palette is twelve but these are not giving me always the results I want.
            The number of colours I consider as convenient are 14 but I usually paint with a 20 colours palette.
            It doesn’t mean that I use all colours at one painting, but if I want a touch of one or another colour, I want to have it available.
            I avoid three or four pigments colours, I avoid also opaque ones ( I have inevitably some of those too but this doesn’t mean that they are my favourites).
            In any case I’m of the opinion that having a reasonable number of colours in your palette helps you work easier and faster.
            But this is my approach. Different people have different needs and tastes so it is up to you to choose, after experimenting a bit of course, what works better for you. :)

            #1251011
            katwalk
            Default

                I am sure you will be getting lots of advice, and I am certainly no expert, but there is another factor to the 6 vs 12 color starting pallet, cost. For artist quality paint an additional 6 colors can be at least an additional 60 dollars. If you have the money I would say go for the 12 colors, if money is an issue start with the 6. Don’t forget that you need to buy brushes (good ones can get expensive) and paper, don’t scrimp on the paper. Cheap paper doesn’t react to water the same way the professional grade papers do, so learning will be much easier on the better quality paper.

                You can fill in your additional paint colors as the budget allows.

                Whichever way you decide to go, have fun.

                #1250998
                indraneel
                Default

                    [oh well, there’s a storm coming so I’m done for the day….]

                    Here are the threads I spoke of above:
                    https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305466
                    https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305865

                    There are some colors which are must haves, any palette will need these…

                    Some kind of a middle yellow (unless one wants a split primary with a less lightfast greenish yellow), so that is a hansa/benzimidazolone/cadmium

                    some kind of scarlet that can work as a red and also make oranges… pyrolle/napthol/cadmium

                    rose/crimson… usually a quinacridone, but there may be a few other choices

                    a blue, which is ultramarine

                    cyan… which is phthalo 15:3, or way more expensive beautiful cerulean. (however, prussian does make better greens, although phthalo makes better turquoise)

                    now the non essentials…

                    turquoise or a bright green like phthalo or really expensive and beautiful viridian to make turquoise (can be made using yellow and cyan but is troublesome and always dull)

                    earth colors or iron oxides which come in yellow, orange and red, literally the colors we see all around us, and they are cheap (can be mixed from the more expensive yellows and reds above)

                    an orange is good to have… sometimes, especially if the earth orange is real (dull) and not an iron oxide

                    learning to mix greens is an asset, and one has to learn it anyway whether one buys tube greens or not. Handprint has a great page on mixing greens. (I found real greens to be fairly muted. could mix them all with the three iron oxides and prussian)

                    on a 12 color palette, I’d definitely (try to) have a real (expensive) cobalt blue (so as not to leave trace of surgically altered skies)

                    #1251007
                    virgil carter
                    Default

                        You’ve asked a very good question, but the answer really is…it depends!

                        Probably nothing in painting is so highly personal (and so often debated) as how a painter may choose a “basic palette”. No two of us will agree on a strategy and a paint selection process. As Indraneel points out, there are very good threads on this subject on Wet Canvas.

                        Here’s a basic discussion from Handprint: http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/palette5.html

                        Some things to think about when choosing a palette of paints:

                        –No paint mixture of two or more paints will ever be as saturated or intense as a pre-mixed paint of the same hue. If you don’t believe this, try mixing orange from any red-yellow combination of paints. Compare the mixture with any pre-mixed orange and one will immediately see that there is no comparison to the saturation of the pre-mixed paint.

                        –Selecting saturated hues is always a good strategy because they allow a double option for painters: 1) Painting with saturation; and 2) Painting with neutralized hues created by mixing complementary or near-complementary color. On the other hand, a selection of pre-mixed neutralized hues can never be made saturated or intense. For example, Burnt Sienna and Raw Sienna are lovely neutralized earth colors, but nothing will ever make them saturated or intense; they will always remain neutralized hues. That’s not to say these two paints (and other similar paints) are not useful; they certainly are. It’s just that saturation or intensity is not part of what they offer.

                        –The further apart on the color wheel are the chosen paints on one’s palette, the more neutralized will be the mixtures using those paints. This is very important, and not well understood. Said differently, the longer the mixing lines or the wider the gamut of paints the more neutral will be the mixtures. This is why three-color primary (and six-color split primary) palettes always produce neutralized mixtures compared with six-color secondary and twelve-color tertiary palette choices.

                        At the end of the day, paint selection depends on personal preferences. For example, does one want to paint in the direction of the early British landscape painters or like a modern colorist painter such as Wolf Khan, or something else entirely? Does one prefer to paint florals, portraits, landscapes, abstracts, collages, ink and paint or something else–many painters prefer very different palettes for these different subjects!

                        This should be an interesting discussion!

                        Sling paint,
                        Virgil

                        Sling paint,
                        Virgil Carter
                        http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                        #1251014
                        pjay_in
                        Default

                            For me it is always a fight between the head and the heart. Though I badly want to reduce my palette size from the current 18 to 12 essentials (I paint landscapes), I found myself ordering a 30-well palette online and planning the sequence of colours to go in it, ordered by hue angle. I know that 30 colours on the palette is something of an overkill for me, but I love my tubes of paint too much to exclude them from regular use. Even with 30 colours on my palette, I am more worried about the paints that have to sit outside in tubes because they didn’t get picked in my top 30, the ones like perylene maroon.

                            My excuse for expanding the palette (though the real reason is that I love all those beautiful paints too much to exclude them) is that as a learner, I must have more colours on my palette so that I can get to know more paints through frequent use and eventually be able to narrow down to 12 or 14 colours that work best for me.

                            If you are just starting out and have to buy all your paints at once, then cost can be a limiting factor. You may want to start with a 12-colour palette and try more paints as you progress in your journey. In my opinion, 12 is the ideal palette size for a beginner. 6 is too restrictive to be your only palette.

                            Later when you have tried more colours than are on your palette (by incrementally buying tubes when you are ready to experiment further), you can make decisions about reconstituting or expanding your palette. I chose to expand, not to reconstitute. When you reach a stage where you start getting a high from squeezing out fresh paint into the clean wells of a new palette, you will discover that preparing palettes can be an even more joyous (and addictive) activity than painting itself.

                            Cheers
                            Jay

                            #1251012
                            Hoplite
                            Default

                                The short answer is yes, more colors makes it easier to mix the color you want without injudiciously turning it into mud. On the other hand, if you are adding a third color to a mix, you are probably trying to mute or tone it down in some fashion anyway (there can be other reasons, but if all you have are six colors, it’s most likely to reduce the intensity in some fashion). I fall back on my college watercolor instructor’s opinion on this: beginner’s benefit from having a palette of about 10-12 colors. It’s enough to give them options and mitigates mixing frustration, yet it doesn’t overwhelm them with too many choices because then they don’t readily learn how the various colors interact. The 12 color palette thread is a good one to read.

                                #1251009
                                Cyntada
                                Default

                                    I’m a big advocate of small palettes, BUT that’s in large part due to being a tonalist at heart. Punchy contrast lights my fire far more than supersaturated color. I use 3-5 pigments in most sketches, but carry 24 because I never know which 3-5 I might want at a particular time.

                                    A dozen pigments is an excellent starting point, if you can afford that much paint. You can learn mixing very well, and still avoid overwhelming confusion. Besides, there’s nothing stopping you from singling out three primaries and practicing mixing exercises, then painting something gloriously saturated with the rest of your palette. :wave:

                                    CK =)
                                    I take great comfort in knowing that my genuine typos will probably be blamed on some device's autocorrect. :angel:
                                    DIY art supplies, sketches, and more: cyntada.com / @cyntada
                                    #1250991
                                    thetech
                                    Default

                                        I probably have 40 tubes of watercolor paint, only a dozen of which I use on any regular basis and try to limit colors to 6 or less in a painting, ideally I have more fun when I limit it to 3 – 4. You will learn color theory and color mixing faster by limiting your pallet, not to mention it gives you the opportunity to LEARN what other colors you need. Besides I think half the fun of painting is discovering new ways to represent color, if you limit your pallet (I put away all the tubes but the ones I selected for the painting, so I’m not tempted to grab something else on a whim), your forced to think about how to make those blacks, and browns, greens and purples…and if you can’t, figure out how to represent it with some other color.

                                        Thetech :D

                                        #1250993
                                        D’Lady
                                        Default

                                            I try to limit myself to eight pigments that I use a vast majority of time, but it’s only because of financial considerations. Thankfully, I have a stockpile of others I acquired long ago, so I can use others when I want to.

                                            As someone said above, endlessly planning the perfect palette is part of the fun. But when it comes down to painting, you have to choose the colors you need, and I see no reason to say “You may only choose from this handful” unless there’s a really compelling reason.

                                            -DragonLady

                                            Which would be the bigger waste:
                                            your art supplies, or your creative soul?

                                            #1251023
                                            zymon
                                            Default

                                                Wow, This is interesting. Will examine all the advice now and follow those links.

                                                I am starting with Cottman grade so they are rather cheap, so I don’t mind buying whatever! If I move to artist grade later I will no doubt think a bit more about whats needed. I want to start watercolouring interiors and cityscapes first so i suppose that requires a certain biased palette i suppose with more natural colours.

                                                Funny today I tried to buy a cool orange but could not see anything similar – probably a cool orange is a contradiction! Similar with purples – I could not tell which is cool or warm, ended up with Cottman purple lake.

                                                Thanks for your brilliant advise so far!!

                                                Simon

                                                #1250994
                                                D’Lady
                                                Default

                                                    Orange and yellow are always “warm”. Technically -and for mixing purposes – a “cool” orange would be one with more yellow, but for gauging visual temperature, it’s always “warm” to me, no matter which way it leans.

                                                    -DragonLady

                                                    Which would be the bigger waste:
                                                    your art supplies, or your creative soul?

                                                    #1251008
                                                    virgil carter
                                                    Default

                                                        From Handprint. Keep in mind that temperature is relative, not absolute. Thus, temperature must be a comparison with at least one other hue.

                                                        That said, since orange to red-orange is generally regarded as the warmest point on the color wheel, looking for a “cool” orange is pretty arbitrary.

                                                        Sling paint,
                                                        Virgil

                                                        Sling paint,
                                                        Virgil Carter
                                                        http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                                        #1250983

                                                        Hi All,

                                                        Im a newbie. So I was deciding to start out with a pallete of 6 main colours and use those to mix everything to learn more.

                                                        But after reading Artist Guide to Mixing Watercolours I an now tending towards her vision. She says that you can get brighter more vivid colours if you use less in the mix. So if i get a few more paints for example warm and cool secondaries then it will be easier and less messing about when mixing neutrals and Tertiaries.

                                                        The book shows some lovely colours and uses lots of Paynes grey and shock horror black, with very nice results.

                                                        I’m a bit confused now, but I like the idea of speeding up and simplifying the mixing process.

                                                        Any thoughts or advise anyone?

                                                        Simon

                                                        Welcome to the Watercolour Forum, Simon! You’ll find this a great place to grow your art.

                                                        Jan Hart is a well respected Artist and Author and following her advice is certainly one direction for you to follow. However, if you read 50 books from well respected Artists and ask 100 well respected Artists you question, you’ll get 150 answers.

                                                        Of course, the answer to that conundrum is that the choices we make in paints, paper and brushes is a very personal experience. Something you must learn very early on is to be selective about accepting all the advice you’ll receive from your questions. Keep asking questions, though!

                                                        My little cupboard is filled with more than 60 tubes of paint. I love colour and have always felt quite justified in buying all those beautiful vibrant tubes. My palettes are all set up with about 24 colours in each of the wells. The only fly in the ointment is that I probably use about 10 of these and in any single composition, I might use 6 or less.

                                                        Not only is this beautiful excess unnecessary for my needs, but it’s expensive! :lol: I don’t smoke or drink or buy a lot of shoes, so I’m not breaking our budget. :) I finally bought some empty half pans and filled them with the colours not on my palette. That way, I can use them when the mood strikes!

                                                        What does any of this mean to you? Only that you might consider beginning with a limited number of colours, learning to use and mix them before expanding your palette.

                                                        Always choose lightfast colours.
                                                        Try to choose single pigment colours.
                                                        You do not have to be Brand loyal.
                                                        Learn to mix your secondary and tertiary colours.
                                                        Learn to mingle colour on your paper.
                                                        Learn to glaze your colour.
                                                        Learn to mix rich darks.

                                                        Cotman is a good quality Student grade paint line. However, I would personally choose fewer colours and select an Artist grade paint.

                                                        Char --

                                                        CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

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