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  • May 29, 2008 at 6:42 am #987162
    YKA
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        Hello Everyone,

        There’s no question that pure classic Gouache is a wonderful medium.

        Its big drawback, though, is the tendancy of some colours to shift, and for all colours to lighten up in value in the drying process.
        It’s not so bad with the best brands.
        I’m astonished that that isn’t more talked about in the Forum…

        But for me, it’s a problem: I’m an illustrator. And if a character wears a yellow blouse, it must be the same yellow the next time she appears in an illustration, even if I paint it 2 months later.
        It is something you can control and get used to. But it needs a lot of practice. In short, if I don’t work in Gouache, say, 2 times a week, I have very poor control of how my colours will go up in value once dried.

        Something else: I might have to paint something 4 times over, and still need to get bright unmuddled colours.

        Because of that, most of the time, I prefer to work with Acrylic Gouache.
        And I’m astonished that they’ve been little spoken about in this forum. And mostly negatively.
        True: Classic Artists’ Gouache is a medium hard to beat, and even very good Acrylic Gouache doesn’t compare well for chroma, smoothness, texture, opacity, and handling capabilities with it.
        No question about it.

        Still it’s a valuable alternative. It is much more opaque and thinnable than real 100% Acrylics.
        The Holbein Acryla Gouache is warmly and justly praised by Ron Howard.
        It is still difficult to me not to have some colours turning out a little too dull, when trying to tone them down in chroma. If somebody has a couple of tips?

        But then, I’ve lately tested a couple (not yet all!) of the Vallejo Acrylic Gouache colours.
        And they’re gorgeous. The pigments are so so highly concentrated (it seems) that you can glaze and wash almost like with Watercolour. And the colours stay so intense and bright.
        So much, actually, that one could get suspicious and think that maybe Vallejo is using Dyes instead of Pigments (?). Does anyone have information on this?

        On top of that, the Vallejo colour range includes Mars Violet / Caput Mortuum, a rich warm very useful brown, one of the basic colours in illustration (!), that has all but disappeared from other brands. (Well Schminke still carries a Light Caput Mortuum, but this doesn’t make sense. It is like offering a light version of Black or Van Dyke Brown)

        Warning, though: My limited experience tends to show that Acrylic Gouache is not really appropriate for painting very big artworks. Does anyone with more practice and knowledge has more to say on that?

        Looking forward to hearing your comments,

        Yves

        Yves Ker Ambrun
        Comic Artist
        Studio: www.skydog-comics.de
        OnLine Comics mostly painted in Gouache: http://yka.comicgenesis.com/

        May 29, 2008 at 10:07 am #1101666
        dbclemons

            I like acrylic “gouache” also, but I always try to put the label in quotes like when speaking of acrylic “gesso” since it’s not the same thing, and less confusing. They’re an acrylic paint and a completely different medium. Value shift happens with acrylic also, but the use of a matting agent in these makes it less noticeable.

            You might find them discussed in the Acrylics forum, but I don’t have a problem with them being talked about here. We’re friendly. :)

            I haven’t tried the Vallejo brand. Lascaux has a version of matte acrylics that seem nice. Turner is another decent brand, and there’s the L&B Flashe vinyls. Golden makes a matte acrylic paint that is more viscous like regular acrylics, and I imagine there are others too.

            Why are you having problems painting on large surfaces?

            David Blaine Clemons
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            June 6, 2008 at 8:42 am #1101667
            elaine321
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                I have been using gouche for quite years. Recently a workmate gave me a box full of acrylic gouache. So far I love them. The colours are much brighter and less mudier. I am a bit confused as to what they are though. Are they more similar to acrylics or gouche.

                I have always put my gouche paintings in glass frames as I had an experience years ago when I was working in an art studio. We came in one morning to find that the illustration I was working on the day before had been half eaten by cockroaches.
                So I am curious does acrylic gouche need to also be covered by glass?
                I also want to know if anyone has used this on canvas or would it deteriorate.

                http://www.facebook.com/PortraitsByElaineTooth
                June 6, 2008 at 9:32 am #1101668
                YKA
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                    Well, O.K., David, we can consider Acrylic Gouache as a very special kind of Acrylics rather than as belonging to Traditional Gouache.
                    Following your tip, I went to the Acrylics forum of Wet Canvas and actually did find quite a lot of posts about Acrylic Gouache and L & B’s Flashe. I’ll try to post there in the future.

                    Flashe is pretty good, too. It seems to be stronger and to dry quicker than Holbein Acryla Gouache. I haven’t try all the colours, but the strong and opaque ones seem to let themselves get diluted to a very thin consistency, very nice for very thin brush work, even for outlining. They make a great underpainting to work over with colour pencils, too.

                    About Lascaux, I don’t know their matte acrylics. But I tried their traditional Gouache with an Ultramarine sample and it handled very poorly without any opacity or this nice smooth texture good Gouache brands produce. More like Watercolour, or Children’s Paints.

                    For the big surfaces problem with Holbein Acryla Gouache, it’s hard to explain simply in words. I find you need to load on your brush double as much paint (and end up using double as much paint) as with traditional Gouache, traditional Acrylics or Oils to cover the same surface. Or then, I have to dilute a lot and lose a lot of chroma intensity. In short, the feeling is that it handles a little bit unpredicably with a big brush on a big surface…

                    Well, Elaine, David would say Acrylic Gouache are more like Acrylics, and I would say they handle more like traditional Gouache. Acrylics are, I find, very rough too handle, it’s rare to find yourself in perfect harmony with the medium. I would say: Traditional Gouache follow astonishingly faithfully your intentions, your brushstrokes and your rhythm. Acrylic Gouache way not as much, but still a lot better then Acrylics do.

                    Since Acrylic Gouache, and Vinylic Flashe as well, are not totally waterproof, they’re probably better framed under glass in the long run, because contrary to Acrylics you can’t wash them up with water and soap, for example.

                    I’m curious, too, to know about their use, handling and longevity on canvas.

                    Yves Ker Ambrun
                    Comic Artist
                    Studio: www.skydog-comics.de
                    OnLine Comics mostly painted in Gouache: http://yka.comicgenesis.com/

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