Home Forums The Think Tank Art History Discussions Non-French drawing traditions?

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  • #459455
    Causality
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        Can anyone recommend a good summary of different western traditions of representational / fine art drawing? I’d like to be able to place the French ‘academy’ approach in a context of what is known about other, different approaches. Thanks!

        #663258
        Causality
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            How about any information at all on non-French drawing methods?

            #663256
            SeanInDublin
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                I think that there seems to be just one classical Western approach to drawing since the Renaissance. The French were working from the forms established in Italy at the time of Raphael, Leonardo and Michelangelo.

                Printmaking spread that approach quickly through Europe. The Northern European masters seem to me a seamless part of the same tradition. Linear perspective was High Science then, as Alberti’s book demonstrates.

                No one seemed to have any new ideas until Pablo and Georges gave us Analytical Cubism. The late nineteenth century was influenced by the Japanese tradition but synthetically I think.

                I would be pleased to be corrected on my thinking.

                Best wishes…

                #663259
                Causality
                Default

                    Ah my apologies, I should have been more specific. It’s not uncommon for a ‘history’ to focus on style and outcomes rather that what I’m interested in, which is specifically method. Particularly strategies geared toward accuracy, blocking-in, that sort of thing. I’m familiar with the things in Da Vinci’s notebooks, or what was known or speculated about Durer (20 years ago). But as information spreads about the the procedures used at least in some schools in France I am interested in comparing that to other approaches.

                    #663257
                    SeanInDublin
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                        I’m sorry I was no help :(

                        A block in from sixteenth century Italy, Luca Cambiaso 1527 to 1585. :)

                        Good luck with your research…

                        #663260
                        Causality
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                            You were very helpful actually. You made me realize I had been criminally unclear in my original question. :)

                            #663248
                            volt
                            Default

                                From the 18 century onwards the Academies were dominant in teaching drawing. Full time tuition that was almost exclusivly in the Academies of art around 1800.
                                The French Academic Manner was Dominant and spread worldwide/ French Academy (founded round 1645).

                                There where big Academies adapting the French teaching methods in Berlin , Vienna, Rome, Antwerp and Brussels. In general from 1800 onwards everywhere people learned drawing first starting to copy from pictures then plasters casts and then from life. Composition was studied in Picture Galleries like the Louvre.

                                Before that drawing was also taught in all particular private studios. Students from the age of 9 started copying small fragments like eyes and noses and the progressed towards more complex tasks. In these Ateliers or studios people had to learn how to work in the style of the masters so to help in the production of the master.

                                In general there are differences between French, Italian, Dutch and German drawings and different studios give all a specific stylised return/ also different materials where used per country , for instance Dutch masters worked with Reed pen and Italian drawings where made with Quill pens.
                                In Academic drawing there is the difference between Baroque drawing (focussing on linework) and Nineteenth century drawing focussing on tonal valyes.

                                Anyhow, there seemed to me like there is almost underneath everydrawing a solid underdrawing some kind of enveloppe or big shape and in finished drawings there was knowledge of tonal values.

                                The 18th and nineteenth century Academies systemised all knowledge and augmented knowledge. What they however also advocated and taught was stylising and idealising the reality trough the examples of Greek art wich was since Renaissance unwards seen as the best example of high art.

                                Accuracy is best achieved by following a good method and working everyday as much as possible. :thumbsup:

                                #663249
                                volt
                                Default

                                    http://historyofdrawing.com

                                    This is a great scholar on the history of drawing
                                    Check out , hope of helps!

                                    #663250
                                    volt
                                    Default

                                        How about the drawings by Michangelo? Pontormo,Tintoretto? And Rubensthese were all non french tradition. Delacroix looked at them and changed the course of the Academy. Perhaps. the 19 Century drawingtradition with realism and not neoclassical styles is wurth pooling at?

                                        #663254
                                        Use Her Name
                                        Default

                                            How about the drawings by Michangelo? Pontormo,Tintoretto? And Rubensthese were all non french tradition. Delacroix looked at them and changed the course of the Academy. Perhaps. the 19 Century drawingtradition with realism and not neoclassical styles is wurth pooling at?

                                            Well, they were not French, nationally. That has nothing to say about traditions, and they also come from different time periods. Rome/Italy during the Renaissance was a huge international capital and gathering place. The main influence that the earlier of the artists had was ancient Rome/Greece. Pontormo was very phobic and ran away to a small Abby during the plague years, he continued to paint in the style of Botticelli, however, he made modifications to the body and used strange colors. Michelangelo went to Constantinople. The French Ambassador to Rome commissioned the Pieta. France continually tried to get him to go to France, etc., so there was a lot of dealings with other countries– etc. I wonder if I am allowed to say that the French tradition (or classical) is actually the Roman/Greek Tradition? What about Indian, Asian, Oceania? Many of the more modern works like of Picasso incorporated a lot of non-acedemic traditions.

                                            France certainly was dominant in art history. French was a world lingua franca, and it was a very important center of commerce and art.

                                            But of course, there are other traditions. I like to use a little influence from ancient art like Egypt.

                                            No longer a member of WC. Bye.

                                            #663251
                                            volt
                                            Default

                                                I interpreted this post as a questions About other approaches then the (French ) academic Education in representational drawingeducation and mainly from a methodical kind of approach

                                                For the tradition in Western art in drawing and other approach in representational drawing Rubens and Tintoretto were neglected by Later academical education . The French schools favoured Raphael and later on Carracci and Poussin over drawingeducation from Titiaan, Rubens and Tintoretto. The drawingmethod of the later 3 artists were not allowed nor studied.

                                                In (French) academic training the drawing s by Delacroix differ greatly and return to the approach by Rubens. Also Ingres comes to mind as a non academic draugthsmen, who looked back to other traditions (gothic art and if my memory does not fail me even egyptian Examples) Fusseli, William Blake, but also the drawings by Lanteri and Toft are i Believe different approaches.

                                                #663252
                                                volt
                                                Default

                                                    Feel free of course to debate but although Delacroix was not a very good academic draugthsmen he was inventive and he made a lot of great drawings https://www.wikiart.org/en/eugene-delacroix/all-works#!%23filterName:all-paintings-chronologically,resultType:masonry

                                                    #663253
                                                    volt
                                                    Default

                                                        #663247
                                                        volt
                                                        Default

                                                            #663255

                                                            I think that there seems to be just one classical Western approach to drawing since the Renaissance. The French were working from the forms established in Italy at the time of Raphael, Leonardo and Michelangelo.

                                                            Printmaking spread that approach quickly through Europe. The Northern European masters seem to me a seamless part of the same tradition. Linear perspective was High Science then, as Alberti’s book demonstrates.

                                                            No one seemed to have any new ideas until Pablo and Georges gave us Analytical Cubism. The late nineteenth century was influenced by the Japanese tradition but synthetically I think.

                                                            I would be pleased to be corrected on my thinking.

                                                            Best wishes…

                                                            Impressionism was a set of new ideas way before Pablo.

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