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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:05 PM
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kaslkaos kaslkaos is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Your photo, your art, so then tracing etc. is not an issue and does not diminish what you do.

One thing you may miss out on, if you don't otherwise sketch is the development of style and expression.

A good question to ask yourself, though; upon completion will you be proud enough of your technique to joyfully discuss your methods with others? I think an honest answer to this questions will let you know if you're on the right track.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:59 PM
TheBurnCycle TheBurnCycle is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

All very good posts, and I'm inclined to agree that final product is still YOUR product, you simply made use of yet another tool/technique to get you there.

I recently struggled morally with a similar issue. Ever since getting a tablet and Photoshop CS4, I've transitioned to pretty much doing all my art digitally. Most of my drawing is for a comic book I'm developing. I used to be great at figure drawing 10 years ago in high school, and I still have a better-than-average understanding of things like musculature and proportion.

However, since getting back into drawing over the past year, whether with a real pencil or my tablet, I have issues with getting my figures into action poses that are realistic (something VERY crucial for a comic book). I thought buying one of those 12 inch wooden mannequins would help, but they don't manufacture them to bend in such action-oriented poses (especially the legs). Then I found a member at DeviantArt had posted a digital "wooden mannequin" they had made in Blender, which could bend just like a normal person could, and he had made it free to download as a reference tool for artists.

Since then, I started posing this digital mannequin the way I want for a given panel, I take a quick screen shot, and then draw over top of that in Photoshop (or Artrage, as I'm using more and more often recently). I felt VERY guilty about this initially, but I got over it. The final product is still all mine. I'm still choosing what pose the mannequin is in (just as others here are shooting their own photos to trace from). It's just another tool of the trade.
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:11 AM
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bionicanaconda bionicanaconda is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Nice cute cat; our cat's called Gerald. Good luck Patty.
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Old 03-21-2010, 12:30 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

If you feel "guilty" regarding tracing, then grid. Gridding is nothing but drawing, but on a smaller scale--one square at a time. It is nearly as easy as tracing, and almost as accurate, as well. Gridding is "drawing" in every sense of the definition. Nobody needs to know from what your painting was gridded.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:57 AM
hewill4giveu hewill4giveu is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Boy let me tell ya i am a novice and even using a graph isnt all its cracked up to be. I have spent a week using a graph because you can still go wrong. I will work on my drawing skills. Because i would love to draw my pics out. As far as the old time artists go to Mike Sibleys websight and read what the old artists did. I do not know which one but he had people who would take the picture and make little dots on the canvas in order to save himself time . Mikes web page tells it better.

After all the pencil didnt jump up on the canvas and do its own thing you still had to draw it on there some how some way. If a person can draw the pic and it turn out that is fabulous and they can be very proud. But from what im reading most places from good artist is they save time and time is money when doing pictures of any kind, by tracing it out or using a projector to do it. For there own just for fun works they do there own drawings. No one to complain about something being out of line. I think it matters more to the artists than it does to the people buying because they just want something beautifull. Very few ask did you draw this? I would have no problem saying yes. Especially when i have spent a week two weeks how ever long to paint it. LOL i can put a drawing on the board and at this stage of my art abilitys it still looks sick when im done LOL. So its more than the drawing its the finished product
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:12 AM
jan7749 jan7749 is offline
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Smile Re: Is it cheating?

I am an entirely self taught artist--never even an art class in school 45 years ago. I have used all the techniques listed above and each has taught me something. Study color theory using a computer and it really starts to come together. I will never be a "great" artist. But I will enjoy each and every picture I do. And I even sell some. The one thing I want to say is in exploring all the different aspects--you may find something you really enjoy and want to do more. It happened to me when I decided I wanted to develop drawing skills--I am still at it and love each minute. Do what you want. It is art. If someone wants to know what media you used--answer; projector, computerized underpainting, what ever.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:11 PM
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kaslkaos kaslkaos is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBurnCycle
Then I found a member at DeviantArt had posted a digital "wooden mannequin" they had made in Blender, which could bend just like a normal person could, and he had made it free to download as a reference tool for artists.

Since then, I started posing this digital mannequin the way I want for a given panel, I take a quick screen shot, and then draw over top of that in Photoshop (or Artrage, as I'm using more and more often recently). I felt VERY guilty about this initially, but I got over it. The final product is still all mine. I'm still choosing what pose the mannequin is in (just as others here are shooting their own photos to trace from). It's just another tool of the trade.

Would you happen to still have the download link for that program? That sounds like an amazing tool. I don't see the moral struggle there. Without style and anatomical knowledge, your 'blendered mannequin" will look like a mannequin. Nowadays, it's simply too pricey to hire live models to hang about in the studio for us to draw at leisure.

I have a plastic mannequin sitting on my desk. He doesn't always co-operate.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:22 AM
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Re: Is it cheating?

No it's not cheating.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:41 AM
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Dallen Dallen is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

No, it is not cheating, it is being a realist.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:56 PM
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Victor Victor is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Hi there,
Look, you are only using this method in order to get the drawing onto the canvas.
Once you have done this, you will then destroy it with paint and it is the painting and how you apply it that counts.
Secondely, it is perfectly ok to paint from your own photo's because afterall, whats the difference between looking at a photo and looking at the real thing but take in all the advice you have been given by others here, especialy the camera distortion as they know what they are talking about.

I also gather that the so called old masters used every trick in the book to achieve a work of art and they did not do it all themselves as they had students to do all the donkey work for them and I wouldn't mind betting, all some of them had to do was just sign their name at the finish

Victor....
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:51 PM
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winking cat press winking cat press is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

OK..... I've read all of the opinions on this particular thread, and discussed similar topics with artists and printmakers at length.... and here's my opinion:

No. It's not cheating. It's official, the Winking Cat has spoken!

(not that I have any real say-so in the matter! LOL!)

Seriously, I can't see it as cheating at all. A lot of us use computers to aid in our compositions, even such noted artists as Barry Moser, the engraver. AND prior to computers, folks used camera obscuras, and prior to that they used grids..... and waaaayy waaayyyy back they used stencils cut from leaves to paint on cave walls. Since Art began, folks have used whatever technology is available to improve their images, and make them easier to produce. There is no shame in being more efficient.

I DO especially like the idea of printing a light image on canvas and then painting over it.... sort of like an old paint-by-numbers!

Remember, it's the final painting that really matters....not the intermediate steps used to produce it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:35 PM
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Painter101 Painter101 is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

I'm kind of on the bench about this topic - I can see why some people find it cheating and some would not.

Last edited by Painter101 : 05-06-2010 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:36 PM
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Re: Is it cheating?

I recall reading that Maxfield Parrish would trace when necessary and he also created models of buildings to help create his landscape paintings later in his career. Whichever paths takes you where you want to be so be it in the end your talent will shine through. So enjoy
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:15 PM
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Gardavkra Gardavkra is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

The fact that you are feeling guilty about it should be a pretty good indication as to whether it is right or wrong for you. To you, it feels like cheating because, in the past you did it without using photoshop and tracing. At least that's what I'm picking up. You obviously have the drawing skills, so using the computer is really not necessary. If you didn't have the drawing skills, I would say that it is cheating. You would be cheating yourself. Tracing isn't going to do much as far as advancing your skills as an artist.

In general, artist's that have perfected their skills can usually spot work that is lacking. Not only lacking technically but, also spiritually. There's more to art than meets the eye.

Suppose you have the money to have a portrait painted by an artist. You arrange a meeting with him or her so that they can discuss the arrangement. Suppose the artist tells you that they will take a boat load of photos and that you will sit down with him or her and pick the one that you both feel works the best. Then he or she tells you that the image will be uploaded to their computer and projected onto the canvas with a digital projector. The artist will then fill in the outlines with paint and it should be done in a certain amount of time. By the way, his or her fee is $10,000. How would you feel? Cheated? If I wasn't an artist my first thought would be, hey I can do that! Is the person an artist or would the title "technician" fit better? I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can look at it from the perspective of a client also.

Our technology brings up quite a few questions. Look at music. Anyone with a computer and the right kind of software can create music. You don't need to play an instrument, you don't need to read or write music. Does that make you a musician? Does wearing a white gi and a black belt make you a black belt?

I would say that if you can draw, then keep drawing. You'll only get better and we as artist's never stop developing. As someone else said, use a grid. It won't hinder your development as an artist, in my opinion.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:40 PM
gokenin gokenin is offline
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Re: Is it cheating?

Nope not cheating. I would say maybe if you were more about the process instead of the product. But, really does anyone feel like splitting hairs on the old argument of process vs product, not I.

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