Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting Tips to avoid adhesion and delamination problems

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  • #989762
    Anonymous

        Recently there has been some interest in these problems and I thought it would be good to share some experience and knowledge with beginners who may need to be made aware of some of these considerations. I don’t have time to address everything at once so I will just start with discussing a good practice for beginning a painting on a raw dry canvas. I try to never ever just up and start painting upon a store bought raw canvas. I always precondition the surface with either medium or thinned paint and usually add a color to either to tone the canvas at the same time.
        First let me show two patches of Winsor Newton Yellow Ochre artist grade paint applied straight from the tube upon a canvas panel. One side is painted without any preconditioning (on the left) and the other side has simply had two coats of Linseed/turp applied (on the right)

        What a difference some oil makes. First the application is smoother and easier with the pre oiled side, it glides off of the brush very nicely.
        However, the one with no oil is more of a chore to apply, it is rough and must be scrubbed in to get the same coverage.
        Now look at the immediate difference in the surface sheens. The oiled surface actually looks richer, glossier, and just plain nicer while the non oiled side is dry looking and duller. It has already lost enough oil through absorption into the raw canvas that it is showing signs of being what is commonly called “underbound” that is, not enough oil left in the paint film to cover all of the pigment. In real life the difference is quite a bit more noticeable than this photo can display.
        This is something I thankfully learned to do about 40 years ago from a good old Walter Foster two dollar book by Robert Wood.

        Here is the blessed quote from page 29:
        “Commence your painting on canvas by wiping the surface with a mixture of linseed oil and turpentine half and half. It is not wise to apply paint from the tube on a dry piece of prepared canvas without first wiping with oil and turps.
        assuring cohesion of the tube pigment and the prepared canvas”
        This simple little tip has helped me for decades now and I hope it helps other beginners.
        But that isn’t the end of concerns about adhesion epecially when painting in layers. Bonding between layers is essential and it isn’t simply a matter of using alkyds or acrylics or one medium vs another, it can happen as it has been happening for centuries to all types of paint including simple traditional oil paint. I will add some tips on this aspect as time permits, thanks for watching!

        #1164908
        !becca
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            his is something I thankfully learned to do about 40 years ago from a good old Walter Foster two dollar book by Robert Wood.

            :thumbsup: isn’t it great to benefit so from such a bargain.

            “Commence your painting on canvas by wiping the surface with a mixture of linseed oil and turpentine half and half. It is not wise to apply paint from the tube on a dry piece of prepared canvas without first wiping with oil and turps.

            quoted for emphasis…thanks for bringing the matter up..and your samples tell the story well.

            Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
            Becca's Fine Art

            #1164967
            sealart
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                #1164921
                Anonymous

                    Thanks becc and sealart, by the way, I would like this to be a cooperative thread with suggestions from as many out there as possible. I am not any expert and many artists have different methods and they all work well for them. I used the term raw canvas in my first post, to clarify, I meant to say store bought, primed and ready to use canvas, I did not mean raw unprimed canvas which is going to really be a no no to commence painting upon without preparation.
                    The most common prepared canvas is made with acrylic gesso. This is the most absorbent out there, even dead flat acrylic gesso is pretty absorbent and will suck the oil out of your paint. When painting oils over acrylic gesso you are relying upon a mechanical or physical bond between the two different materials.
                    Oil primed canvas is generally less absorbent than acrylic gesso and being oil based, it will bond not only physically but also will bond chemically to a certain degree.

                    #1164909
                    !becca
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                        Only comment I have is that I do love the oil primed linen as a painting surface better than any other…though I do sometimes cover an area with medium prior to painting anyway.

                        Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                        Becca's Fine Art

                        #1164922
                        Anonymous

                            yes, i agree oil primed is the best and oiling it out first also facilitates the paint application.

                            #1164910
                            !becca
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                                Yes, it has a wonderful slick surface, is perfect for painting in a drawing and I think my paintings are more radiant on it. Oiling is helpful in enhancing these aspects as well as the general paint application.

                                Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                Becca's Fine Art

                                #1164923
                                Anonymous

                                    Paints vary quite a bit in how much oil to pigment ratio there is and this will also come into play, here are two paints applied straight from the tube onto the same untreated canvas, I used the same yellow ochre and Winsor Newton Raw Umber Artists grade paint.
                                    This yellow ochre took days to dry whereas the umber dried in almost one day.

                                    Notice that the Raw Umber is glossier. Not only is the Yellow Ochre high in pigment to oil ratio, this is the natural version that is very slow drying. This gives the oil even more time to be absorbed into the canvas than the faster drying Raw Umber. So different paints will sink in moreso than others.
                                    Different mediums will also produce dull and glossy finishes which I will show examples of later.
                                    The point of this is that a flat, level, glossy, fully dried surface can or will cause subsequent adhesion problems if one is painting in layers. Here the tell tale sign to watch for that indicates that you may be running into a problem is the beading up of the paint layer you are putting down next. There are a number of ways to rectify this situation and I will also discuss these methods.

                                    #1164911
                                    !becca
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                                        That’s interesting…I know raw umber is a quick drier, but I hadn’t considered that might trap the oil on the surface more than slow drying pigments…

                                        Becca “Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined.” ........ “Not till we are completely lost or turned around... do we begin to find ourselves.” ........ “All good things are wild and free.” ........ “This world is but a canvas for our imagination.” ...... "Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” Henry David Thoreau
                                        Becca's Fine Art

                                        #1164949
                                        Trond
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                                            Here’s another suggestion: painting into a wet imprimatura.
                                            Start with an umber or other earth tone. To make it a bit more neutral or cool you can add a bit ultramarine or other colors, if it’s too dark, add a little lead white (titanium is a bit too chalky and opaque, and don’t use strong tinting colors). Mix well with your favorite oil (linseed, walnut, poppy) until it’s fluid or semi fluid. Brush onto the gessoed canvas, and then wipe it down immediately with a rag. This creates a nice tinted canvas which is easy to paint on, and the presence of umber makes the whole thing dry faster.

                                            #1164924
                                            Anonymous

                                                That is a very good tip Trond, thanks! Yes I have been watching some videos by Lipking and Gerhartz and that is basically what they do also.

                                                Here is another test panel using a few different mediums, Liquin, Daler Rowney Alkyd Flow, Graham Walnut Alkyd, and Stand oil/ OMS.
                                                It is hard to see the difference in this photo so you will have to trust me a bit on the evaluation, in real life it is much more apparent. The Liquin leaves a matte surface, the next most glossy one is the Stand oil, then the DR Alkyd is fairly glossy, and the Walnut Alkyd is the most glossy.

                                                Here is another where three more are used , in this one I used no medium, Stand/OMS, and Stand/Damar/Turp medium with both raw umber and yellow ochre:

                                                Again it is better in person where you can rotate the panel and easily see the surfaces better but the ones with no medium are dull, the ones with the added mediums are fairly glossy.
                                                So what you add while painting will affect the oil content and thus the final surface gloss. Mediums are formulated and different ways. The two different brands of Alkyd mediums display a marked difference in the final gloss. Liquin even looks cloudy in the bottle and the Daler Rowney Alkyd is very clear and feels a bit more sticky than the liquin. Stand oil imparts much more gloss than regular linseed oil, Damar and other resins also make a difference.

                                                Such differences in paints and mediums are what make for uneven looking surface finishes and unpleasant looking sunken areas. But how they look is not so important as how they will accept subsequent paint layers. High gloss is the bane of paint adherence. House painters either sand down a high gloss surface or use a chemical gloss removing solution, (sometimes called liquid sandpaper) for the sole purpose of ensuring proper adherence between layers.
                                                Also the longer you wait between layers the harder and more cured the paint will be so if you go alla prima there isn’t anything to worry about. Layered painting with dried and glossy surfaces is another story and you can run into adhesion problems with any variation of oil paint and medium.
                                                The first method is a very old classical type of treatment where you rub first with an onion. I don’t know if yellow, sweet, vidalia, or whatever is best to use :D I have personally never used this method myself, but here is a nice demo of using this method:
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                                                more to come on this.

                                                #1164961
                                                _Phil_
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                                                    Excellent post and thread Sid. Thank you!

                                                    #1164960
                                                    Jsprakel
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                                                        i’m a bit of a newbie here and find these tips&tricks posts extremely useful, so thank you to the more experienced members for sharing.

                                                        I do have a question: would you recommend doing this also for gessoed masonite boards, ie apply a precoating of oil&turps. Since I’m still learning (and have notoriously little patience) I am using liquin as a glazing medium, would precoating with that work too? I did notice that the sheen isnt so nice with liquin, maybe I could make a glazing mix of part liquin part linseed? So much to learn……

                                                        #1164925
                                                        Anonymous

                                                            I do have a question: would you recommend doing this also for gessoed masonite boards, ie apply a precoating of oil&turps. Since I’m still learning (and have notoriously little patience) I am using liquin as a glazing medium, would precoating with that work too? I did notice that the sheen isnt so nice with liquin, maybe I could make a glazing mix of part liquin part linseed? So much to learn……

                                                            thanks phil and JS, yes I give smooth gesso masonite a wipe also, even dead flat smooth gesso is pretty absorbent. I myself don’t see the harm in doing it with pretty much any medium, the purpose is to fill the micro sized pores and gaps in the surface, if you don’t do it with something beforehand first then capillary action will do it for you and suck it out of your paint mix and absorb whatever binder and medium you are using. Yes, I think that you can mix liquin with oil and use it to glaze with but it may not store well so I would make it fresh then discard any unused.
                                                            The sheen or rather the lack of it is something that does put off a lot of beginners. They want things to always look nice and even, if you varnish that will fix that at the end of the process. A dull matte surface means it is a rougher surface and one that is good for making a mechanical bond. But too little binder can make for an underbound condition. A glossy surface means it is level and smooth and may look nice when done but during the process of painting, too glossy may not accept the next layer and you will get beading and lifting and poor adhesion. Like a lot of things, extremes are bad and the moderate condition is often best.

                                                            #1164902
                                                            WFMartin
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                                                                In order to keep my first application of “image paint” from sinking in, and being absorbed by the tooth of the surface of the acrylic primer, I apply two coats of oil paint. To do this, I thin my paint with the following medium: 1 part Stand Oil to 5 parts of Turpentine (real, bona-fide, pure, distilled spirits of gum turpentine, and not some petroleum distillate masquerading as Turpentine).

                                                                I apply two coats of paint using this medium (a very LEAN medium–lots of solvent). I used to use Old Holland’s Cremnitz White (Lead Carbonate) until the price of the good lead paint made it prohibitive for me. I now just use Titanium White. I tint the white with Raw Umber. This reduces the stark whiteness of the canvas, while sizing the canvas with paint, allowing me to then apply image paint without it being absorbed by the acrylic primed surface.

                                                                I do my charcoal drawing (or transfer) right on this oil-painted surface. It works wonderfully.

                                                                wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                                                https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

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