Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Adhesive of polyestercanvas to dibond

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  • #484097
    forrie
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        There is an older thread here (that is closed) that discusses some of this, back from 2005.

        I’m interested in using/trying canvas (polyester) adhered to dibond panels, my panel of choice. I’m curious if anyone here has done this and what adhesive you used. I would be concerned about archival properties of the adhesive.

        I generally great my dibond panels first with a marine bonding agent prior to gesso, to ensure adherence. I’m not entirely sure this would apply to a bonding agent for something like canvas.

        https://www.dickblick.com/products/caravaggio-acrylic-primed-polyester-canvas-rolls/

        This is one item I may try using.

        I’d appreciate any feedback!

        Thanks in advance.

        #948271
        Jeffro Jones
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            “Marouflage” is the word, I recollect :)
            I don’t see any problem with what you want to do.
            “Justpaint.com” advises lightly scuff-sanding the surface of the panel, but not enough to expose the aluminium.
            Presumably just sanding it enough to give a good physical key to your glue.
            I’d think a decent acid-free PVA glue would do the trick.
            Again, Justpaint suggests priming with acrylic, I see no reason that PVA wouldn’t stick just as well.
            By the way, polyester canvas (as far as I recall) has a good reputation as a stretched canvas.
            It is far less affected by atmospheric moisture than cotton or linen, so it does not move as much over the years, resulting in less stress on the paint film.
            Good luck :)

            :::

            #948273
            contumacious
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                Another plus with polyester fabric is that it is much more resistant to damage if any oil soaks through your ground into the fabric.

                Something to think about – polyester is much more “slippery” than linen or cotton and might be more difficult to get good adhesion to the panel because of that. PVA would be my last choice for this. It is not a particularly strong adhesive, is hygrosopic and peels off of ACM panels more easily than some other glues from my experience. If you want to be able to remove the canvas later (highly recommended) then you will want to use a heat activated adhesive. You can remove PVA with heat but not as easily as adhesives that are designed for easy removal with lower temperatures such as Lamin-All, Beva 371 and Versamount. They cost more but if your painting has a reasonably high value to you, they are worth the extra expense. Be aware that Lamin-All has a recommended bonding temperature of 210F. Beva 371 and Versamount Low Temp work at 150F so they would be easier to safely remove a completed painting than the Lamin-All.

                Also, using a bonding primer of some kind will increase the adhesion strength substantially with whatever glue you use vs just gluing the canvas to the sanded factory finish. I have had canvas sheets literally pop off the ACM panel when glued without a bonding primer using PVA glue and even the higher cost removable glues.

                #948269
                forrie
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                    I always apply a thin coat of marine bonding agent to the polyester layer, as was recommended by a manufacturer (I can’t even remember where). Then, I apply the sandable gesso layers. This creates a “proper” chemical bond that is less likely to peel off.

                    As for the bonding agent to keep the polyester cloth in place (for eternity LOL), I would imagine we’d need something non-acidic (duh) — there’s a product I had in mind, and of course I can’t think of it now. But there is a thread here with some info:

                    https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1374211

                    PH Neutral adhesive from DickBlick sounds like a good candidate.

                    I have found however that it’s difficult or impossible to get samples of the polyester cloth — it’s very expensive, so Caravaggio et al sell these in large rolls. I want a fine texture.

                    I’m rambling. Thank you for your reply, it at lets me know I’m on the right path here :)

                    #948270
                    forrie
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                        Ah, I just figured out the adhesive I was thinking of, it’s called Laminall:

                        http://www.laminall.com/

                        But, I am not sure this is a good idea for polyester! Imagine that stuff melting under your iron, not pretty.

                        In this case, I imagine there must be an adhesive that would be appropriate for bonding to the primed polyester to the polyester coating on DIBOND, saving a few headaches and steps in between.

                        I emailed Laminall and got this curt response, so I guess I won’t use their stuff:

                        Sorry – we cannot help you.
                        Good luck,
                        Jack

                        #948272
                        Jeffro Jones
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                            polyester is much more “slippery” than linen or cotton

                            I can’t speak to this, having only used the technique on cotton canvas.

                            PVA would be my last choice for this. It is not a particularly strong adhesive

                            But contumacious, do we actually need a super-strong glue?
                            My experience with PVA gluing cotton canvas to hardboard panels is that it sticks well, and stays stuck.
                            I’ve never tried to peel it off, though! It may not be the strongest bond, but I’m not sure why it matters, if it stays stuck.
                            But I’ve never ACTUALLY glued polyester to Dibond or ACM, so I’m inferring, not drawing on direct experience.
                            I would expect, though, as Justpaint said, lightly scuffing the surface would help adhesion.

                            @forrie: In any case, please let us know how it turns out :)

                            :::

                            #948268
                            cb3
                            Default

                                Some reading here:
                                https://www.justpaint.org/painting-on-dibond/

                                Contact Scott Bennett or anyone at Golden Paints. They may have an answer for you.

                                https://www.justpaint.org/contact-us/

                                Some more info on Dibond:
                                https://graphicdisplayusa.com/downloads/Dibond%20Fabrication%20Manual_May%202011.pdf

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