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Old 02-08-2020, 04:03 AM
tidal tidal is online now
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will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

If you put a grey patch next to another (bearing in mind the grey is not a true grey from pure black only pigment but instead a grey made up of pure black pigment and yellow and maybe the slightest smallest amount of blue to actualy arrive at a grey instead of just a darker yellow ) will this grey influence color next to it (for example pull on the opposite ie it's complimentary) so that would be blue so if I put a red next to it the red maybe take on a violet hue or if I put a white next to it the white would take on a cool (ie blue) tone instead of warm (ie yellow)? (understanding that I have used pure white pigment for the white lets say I use titanium and not zinc as titanium is warmer than zinc ) cheers...I am wondering as you would have to put a bit of blue to get the grey and not just the yellow as I explained and am thinking if there is that wee bit of blue in there that it then won't pull on the complimentary of the other color ...
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Old 02-08-2020, 12:22 PM
Newatercolorist Newatercolorist is offline
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

Hi, if i understood you correctly, i think you can add blue to the yellow grey mixture and will still make the zinc white look cooler....as long as there is more yellow than blue. But it will also depend on what yellow you use because if ends up mixing with the little blue in a somehow greenish grey then the green is not the greatest hue to make feel another neutral (or white) as cooler or warmer. To my eyes primary yellow is not a particularly warm hue until it has some red in it, in opposition to primary blue that is cool and primary red de that's is warm.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:50 PM
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidal
If you put a grey patch next to another (bearing in mind the grey is not a true grey from pure black only pigment but instead a grey made up of pure black pigment and yellow and maybe the slightest smallest amount of blue to actualy arrive at a grey instead of just a darker yellow ) will this grey influence color next to it (for example pull on the opposite ie it's complimentary) so that would be blue so if I put a red next to it the red maybe take on a violet hue or if I put a white next to it the white would take on a cool (ie blue) tone instead of warm (ie yellow)? (understanding that I have used pure white pigment for the white lets say I use titanium and not zinc as titanium is warmer than zinc ) cheers...I am wondering as you would have to put a bit of blue to get the grey and not just the yellow as I explained and am thinking if there is that wee bit of blue in there that it then won't pull on the complimentary of the other color ...
It's hard for me to follow exactly what you're getting at - but why not go to PS or similar and put a swatch of grey next to a swatch of x, etc. Seems like a painless way to find the answer.
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Old 02-09-2020, 09:06 AM
tidal tidal is online now
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

so to be clear...What happens is if you put a grey patch on a red background ,it will look blue/green..if background is green/yellow the grey patch will look violet according to some art toff in a book he says this due to colors demanding each other or so coz the eye demands completeness or in plain English they pull on there complimentarys.Bongolian Yes I currenty have three experiments going and have put many (glaze)layers oil paint , not got to the telling stage with the other color yet as I am use just oil no solvent so layers taking an age to dry or cure thoroughly .Also pigment exspensive lost count of the batches I made that were wrong color and pigment I waste so is good to have a little think before doing lol

Ah yes new watercolorist that is egzactly it answer stareing me in the face thankyou is like a greige
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:37 PM
Newatercolorist Newatercolorist is offline
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

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Originally Posted by tidal
so to be clear...What happens is if you put a grey patch on a red background ,it will look blue/green..if background is green/yellow the grey patch will look violet according to some art toff in a book he says this due to colors demanding each other or so coz the eye demands completeness or in plain English they pull on there complimentarys.Bongolian Yes I currenty have three experiments going and have put many (glaze)layers oil paint , not got to the telling stage with the other color yet as I am use just oil no solvent so layers taking an age to dry or cure thoroughly .Also pigment exspensive lost count of the batches I made that were wrong color and pigment I waste so is good to have a little think before doing lol

Ah yes new watercolorist that is egzactly it answer stareing me in the face thankyou is like a greige

So your english gets good or bad depending to whom you reply? Thank you.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:48 AM
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidal
If you put a grey patch next to another (bearing in mind the grey is not a true grey from pure black only pigment but instead a grey made up of pure black pigment and yellow and maybe the slightest smallest amount of blue to actualy arrive at a grey instead of just a darker yellow )...
Just an FYI : mixing any black with any yellow will make a dull/very dull green. Adding a bit of blue will make it even greener, not greyer.

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if you put a grey patch on a red background ,it will look blue/green..if background is green/yellow the grey patch will look violet
That is correct. Also, a grey background might emphaszie the color (apparent chroma) of a colored patch on it. These things are called simultaneous color contrast and can have a huge (and often surprising) affect on how we perceive color in the context of an artwork or scene.
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:05 AM
tidal tidal is online now
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

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Originally Posted by Newatercolorist
So your english gets good or bad depending to whom you reply? Thank you.


Ahh u got me there you are correct , (it's a personal issue no reflection on anyone here ,so hope no one takes offence) you are all fab

Oh cheers Patrick1 Thankyou for that tip makes sense now why the yellow I put over the black looks like sewage floating over a black lagoon lol

"simultaneous color contrast and can have a huge (and often surprising) affect on how we perceive color in the context of an artwork or scene." excellentthankyou that is very illuminating Partick1

The main thing was trying to make say for example a white( made from titanium and linseed stand oil) will have a yellow undertone all be it slight ..so to try to play down the yellow was thinking to have (in the mixed greys) a girege or yellow grey so in theory it would pull out the complimentary ie blue in the white. But as you rightly say and i descover this morning looking at my nearly dried paint the yellow and black ( thin layer 99% yellow/1% blue mixe over black layer ) etc is looking green... even with a nano(smallest) amount of blue possible in the mix so as to avoid just getting dark yellow) which would then now pull the red out of the white ie it would be warm and not cool or pulling on the blue as I had intended. Oh boy it's never ending ! Just keep experimenting I guess and thankyou so much for your help it is fantastic

I start to read joseph Albers interaction of color hopefully that will help
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:55 PM
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

BTW, just to clarify, by saying black + yellow = dull green, I mean in physical (subtractive) paint mixing (either paint mixing or transparent glazing). In optical mixing (i.e. adjacent colored dots) it might make more like a darker yellow (or...it might also be a bit greenish depending on context, I dunno).

Off-topic: various black + green combos are arguably the easiest and best way to mix dull (and even surprisingly not-so-dull) greens. Lemon Yellow + any black is surprising.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:32 PM
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

I use black + a variety of yellows to make green all the time. Works really well for landscapes.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:21 AM
tidal tidal is online now
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Re: will a yellow/grey make a white cool?

Am doing very thin layers like a glaze I guess , so have done a pure black base ( ie pure black pigment ) and when dry on top thin layer glaze again off the pure yellow and yep indeedy it look green allright not massively so but..

Am thinking that maybe black or even proper pure black pigment is blue in some way as had a paint made up that was made of pure white and pure black pigment etc and when I added even more white to brighten the value it looked pale blue.
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