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  • #991525
    mikaselm
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        Good Morning, all!!

        I’ve been adding gold leaf to my illuminations for a while, using the kit from Hobby Lobby that comes with a gigantic fat pen and a little booklet of “Metal Leaf.”

        I figured that this was a good starting point for cheap and easy practice, and I’ve definitely learned a LOT using it. So far, I’ve been pooling the pen’s sticky whatever-it-is out on my paint pallet and using a brush to apply, letting it dry, then applying the leaf and brushing off excess.

        It works ok, and I’ve gotten some pretty results, but I’d like to move on to raised illuminating and maybe get a little nicer results. I’ve read several recipes online for making your own gesso and pros and cons of several, but I’m wondering if there’s a passable pre-made gesso that I can purchase for some of my early experiments? Any suggestions are helpful!!

        Thanks so much, all!

        #1198541
        fatbrush
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            Hi there! It’s a long time time since I have worked with gesso for raising gold but if my memory serves me correctly there are problems that may make pre-made gesso difficult to find. When you make your own gesso, you mix and grind the ingredients together and with a little distilled water and you form it into a small ‘cake’. Now if you left the cake for any length of time the ingredients would tend to migrate. When you came to use it you had to cut a segment, regrind and mix with some more distilled water before laying it on the vellum and shaping it prior to gilding. Now modern technology may have improved on that and there may be some pre-mades on the market so my advice – keep searching but the amazing results that can be achieved by making and using your own certainly make it worthwhile. Ady

            #1198528
            somk
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                If it is Hobby Lobby, chances are you are working with brass and not real gold. The squares are bigger and fake gold does not adhere to fake gold. Hence you will have not a good burnishing effect that you get with real gold leaf.
                The fake gold leaves are brittle, they break more easily than real gold and it is a good idea to use an oil based glue under them and seal them with a top varnish that will surely make them a tad duller but at least will prevent oxydation. But you surely know all this.

                Now considering raised gilding, if you work with an oil based adhesive, anything goes. You can totally make raised surfaces with cheap gesso (acrylic), top them with oil based adhesive and then put your brass leaf onto it. That is what we do when we gild, for instance, an object not requiring real gold. The oil based glue dries very thoroughly and is not rubbery like most PVA based glues.

                It is a heresy if you want to do illuminations with real gold though. In this case, you have cornelissen/roberson improved gold body, or miniatum by Kolner or a very good already made gesso made and sold by Jerry Tresser.

                Making it yourself includes candy sugar, lead white, plaster, parchment glue (hide) etc… and is a longish and quite finicky process. Perfect if you need some decent quantities though.

                It is another technique, because the plaster is fragile, the glue has some bad days but layers upon layers of real gold on top of it and some burnishing will give you the best and most stable gold you can find :)

                I hope I helped a bit :p

                -Sophie-
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                #1198542
                mikaselm
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                    You’ve helped a lot! I’m definitely using fake gold right now. It’s sold as “metal leaf” I believe, because I haven’t had a major project that I really wanted to invest in until now. But I’d like to do a large version of “Jabberwocky” for the living room wall, and I think I might invest in some real gold for that. It’s still in the concept phase now, I have some basic sketches, but nothing put together. I would want to practice a bit first as well :) I think the way to go will be to make my gesso, so I suppose it’s time to start practicing with that and working up the layout for the whole piece :)

                    #1198529
                    somk
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                        Awesome ! I hope you’ll share the in progress picts! :clap:

                        -Sophie-
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                        SoMK on Flickr[/URL]
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                        #1198543
                        mikaselm
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                            I’ll definitely post some wip’s :) Whenever I get around to actually having some play time, that is. Too much overtime at work.

                            I keep reading passing references to using garlic juice. Do you know what that’s about? What would you mix it with? Are people putting it into juicers? I can’t imagine being able to get too much juice out of a garlic clove.

                            With the cornelissen/roberson improved gold body, or miniatum by Kolner, does it need to be mixed with anything to use, or do I just buy the bottle and have fun? I also couldn’t find the gesso made by Jerry Tresser. Is that something pre made that can be purchased?

                            Thank you sooo much!!

                            #1198530
                            somk
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                                Yeah, just have fun. those are alcohol based gesso so as long as you keep the lid on tight, they will last. The Roberson is a tad tricky to reactivate, it asks for a lot of heat so you will have to blow seveal times but you’ll see the surface shining when it is ready so, all good ! And it burnishes well.
                                Jerry tresser sells it on his website but beware of winter season, it doesn’t not like cold :( Wait for spring! http://www.jtresser.com/GILDING-SUPPLIES-2.html (scroll down) Possibly one of the best gesso :)

                                -Sophie-
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                                #1198531
                                somk
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                                    About garlic, it is a very well known and used technique in Armenia for instance. Fresh garlic cloves that you press and filter. From there it can be used alone or mixed with glaire or ammonia gum etc.. So many recipes ! :)
                                    I like it, it’s cheap but the gilding will be soft under heat so, it is fragile imho.
                                    but good results!

                                    -Sophie-
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                                    #1198544
                                    mikaselm
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                                        Awesome!! You are so helpful!! With Garlic, do you get the raised effect, or is that flat?

                                        #1198545
                                        mikaselm
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                                            WIP’s posted :)

                                            #1198532
                                            somk
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                                                flat and quite smelly ;)

                                                -Sophie-
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                                                #1198546
                                                mikaselm
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                                                    OK, everyone seems to rave about the Tressler stuff, and I’d love to give it a try (especially since his page says it works well with a parallel pen, my absolute fave). You say it has some issues in Winter, though? Is it the cold or the dryness that gives it trouble? I can do something about the temperature, but there’s no hope for humidity in Denver, my sinuses can attest to that, lol!

                                                    If the Tressler is a no go, then I think that I’m going to look at the Kolner Miniatum…

                                                    Will either of those work with the “metal leaf” that I’ve been using? I’d like to do a couple of mock ups for practice, to get the hang of using it and getting it diluted properly before I go wasting the expensive real gold!

                                                    Thank you so much!!

                                                    #1198533
                                                    somk
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                                                        Just my opinion, ok? By any mean, do your experiments as you feel like, it is part of the fun.

                                                        Imho, using a traditional Jerry Tresser gesso (and quite pricey at that) with very basic metal leaves, it seems like a mismatch to me. Traditional gesso is fantastic because it burnishes elegantly, layers after layers of gold. If you are to glue metal sheets to it, it is a tad overkill I am afraid.
                                                        Miniatum, which is plastic will be a better match for sure.
                                                        Or any oil based glue on top of any relief maker, even acrylic gesso.

                                                        Keep the good stuff for the good stuff ;)

                                                        To be honest, I don’t think you can practice real loose gold 24kt leaf with mock up gold. They don’t behave in the same way. There is less statics in fake gold, it breaks, you can’t work the layers which are the essential parts of real gold gilding so yeah, it’s fun but not an accurate training in all honesty.

                                                        and the cold can be dangerous because gesso contains water, you don’t want it to freeze :/ No idea if it can come back without damage but well.. here it is a tad extreme, we are at -40F today X)

                                                        -Sophie-
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                                                        #1198547
                                                        mikaselm
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                                                            Phew!! -40! That really is a bit extreme! I really appreciate your opinions, they’re extremely helpful, and after taking a peek at your flicker gallery, I’m super inclined to listen. You’ve got some amazing work. Sounds like I need to just fork over for the real stuff :) I think I’ll be ok from freezing… any packages that I get are dropped off in a climate controlled office, so I think I’ll go ahead and give ordering a try. The gesso isn’t the expensive part, so even if I end up with a bad batch, that probably won’t break the bank.

                                                            The gold I’ll have to talk the hubby into :) Do you have a suggestion for vendors that give you a good balance of quality and price?

                                                            #1198534
                                                            somk
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                                                                Unfortunately, gold prices went haywire a few years ago so you’ll find anything between $50 and 80, depending on carat. I buy at Currys but it is Canadian :)

                                                                -Sophie-
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