Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone What Is A Finished Painting?

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  • #467021
    virgil carter
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        The good on-going discussion about what’s a sketch and a finished painting has resulted in a good exchange of views and experiences about what’s a sketch and what’s a painting. We all have our individual views, and the exchange of those views has been interesting and educational, IMO.

        So…some of the comments in that thread suggest there may be interest in what consititutes a finished painting. Indeed, there are frequent threads posted here, and elsewhere, where folks post a painting and ask, “is my painting finished?”; “I think my painting needs something, but I don’t know what…!” “What should I do?”

        So…what is a finished painting? When is a painting finished?

        Illustrations are worth thousands of words, so here’s nine paintings, in different approaches for making paintings, to examine and determine if they are “finished”.

        To make comparisons and evaluations easier, I’m made all the paintings of similar a subject–landscapes/townscapes. Of course, I could have selected a range of subjects, but evaluation may be easier with a common subject.

        Are any of these paintings finished?

        Syd Conisbee

        John Baeder

        Cathy Hillegas

        Robert Roth

        Victoria Prischedko

        Irma Cerese

        :grouphug:

        Susan Webb Tregay

        Stephane Gaguon

        Sandy Ostrau

        What do you think? Are these paintings? Are they finished? Or are they something else?

        Sling paint,
        Virgil

        Sling paint,
        Virgil Carter
        http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

        #756141

        You may not like my answer, Virgil. I don’t care if anyone, including myself, think these are finished paintings. What I think simply doesn’t matter. To those Artists, anyway. If they all felt that their work was finished, then I would have to accept that and perceive them exactly as they are.

        My own work, however, requires some decision-making for me to consider it done and over with. My goal is always to keep my work fresh, limiting the number of times I run my brush over a region. This is an important distinction for me because a particular region or element may not be exactly as I envisioned it. But, I work hard to prevent overworking everything. So, that element may or may not be finished. I have to decide if it’ll fit within the composition as a whole.

        If I cannot do another thing to improve my painting then it must be finished. It won’t matter to me if others believe it to be a finished work, or not.

        Some finishes are not as satisfactory as others. :lol: That brings to mind one painting in particular. I was furiously painting to accumulate enough work for a solo exhibition. I was working on a composition of heirloom tomatoes on the vine and set them into a garden with lots of greens and vines. They disappeared into the busy background and the whole was awful. I deepened the values of those greens and made it worse. In frustration, I painted the background black. I did hate this piece by now. Hated it. I hung it anyway. It was the first piece that sold. Go figure.

        Was it finished? Perhaps. :lol:

        Char --

        CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

        #756158
        briantmeyer
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            I have an odd way of looking at it.

            Every mark you do adds something.

            However there is a point where you cannot add more marks without subtracting, ( this includes over explaining things ). It’s the oops point, where it was really strong until you said this or that. Are the marks capable of communicating your idea/vision, are they recognize-able.

            I was working on a video game for a while doing area design, and an idea there is, how many trees does it take for someone to feel like they are in a forest. If you do too many trees, it affects the computers performance, too few and it’s not immersive. Many are very literal in this – they do hundreds of trees because when “they” play their game they know how many trees there are, they are counting – they are behind the stage, behind the mirror. But the reality is a player is too busy playing a game to be counting how many trees. This is not about putting down exactly what you want the person to think, it’s making them feel like it without doing the work yourself, instead you are making their imagination do the work.

            Similarly, it’s hard to know when a portrait catches a likeness, when what you are doing will click with others, where that line between a blob of paint and a thing, this requires wisdom, and not just experience painting, but feedback in asking others to describe their feelings, this is about using art as a language, not just a method of rendering.

            As you gain more experience, you learn when more marks is bad, but you also have a lot more ideas on how to improve things, and further an idea of what will happen when you do so. Your tool box is just a lot bigger. Its not that less is more, rather you know how to keep improving things more as you go.

            Due to that skill, as you add more marks, they tend to add something far more reliably, which means a more advanced artist is capable of developing an idea far more than someone who is relatively just starting. A really skilled artist can do things which should not work in theory, or can add that one more thing, and end up with a stronger picture.

            Is a painting ever finished, I don’t see that as how i want to look at it, rather can I, with my current skill level contribute something which improves it? Which says something more, or helps its message be understood better?

            A painting should not be completed by the artist, it should be completed by the viewer. Let the forest happen in their mind, your job is to lead them there, let their imagination finish the work.

            #756150
            virgil carter
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                “…Is a painting ever finished, I don’t see that as how i want to look at it, rather can I, with my current skill level contribute something which improves it? Which says something more, or helps its message be understood better?…”

                “…A painting should not be completed by the artist, it should be completed by the viewer. Let the forest happen in their mind, your job is to lead them there, let their imagination finish the work…”

                Wise words, IMO, Brian.

                I can’t remember the historical artist who said something to the effect that a painting is only finished when the artist decides to stop painting…

                But…when is that?

                Also I remember a respected workshop teacher with whom I painted who said to the class, “Ninety-nine percent of the failed paintings got that way when the artist said ‘I’ll just add this…’ ”

                sling paint,
                Virgil

                Sling paint,
                Virgil Carter
                http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                #756151
                virgil carter
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                    “…You may not like my answer, Virgil. I don’t care if anyone, including myself, think these are finished paintings. What I think simply doesn’t matter. To those Artists, anyway. If they all felt that their work was finished, then I would have to accept that and perceive them exactly as they are…”

                    Char, I’m not being judgmental about questions or answers. I’m trying to encourage a discussion on a topic frequently brought up here by a variety of posters, i.e., “…is my painting finished…”?

                    If I understand what you are saying, I agree: “finished paintings” depend entirely on the story the painter wants to tell, i.e., the painter’s intent for the painting.

                    If the story is told, and nothing more is really needed to tell the story, then, indeed, the painting is finished and complete. If the painting meets the painter’s intent, then certainly the painting is finished.

                    The challenge for many early painter is if the painter doesn’t know what their story is, or doesn’t know what their intent is for a painting…that’s another situation entirely.

                    I think all of these painters clearly knew what their story was. They simply chose to tell their story using different painting vocabulary.

                    What you think does matter…it’s the purpose of this thread.

                    sling paint,
                    Virgil

                    Sling paint,
                    Virgil Carter
                    http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                    #756163
                    shadye1
                    Default

                        All the paintings struck a chord with me, except the last. to me it did not look finished, isn’t that strange? I suppose the others linked with a memory and I imagined a previous scene. Thought provoking.

                        #756165
                        Que Sera
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                            ” A painting should not be completed by the artist, it should be completed by the viewer. Let the forest happen in their mind, your job is to lead them there, let their imagination finish the work. ”

                            So true. You will be surprised what people see in your creative work. I used to exhibit interpretative floral art, not paintings of flowers but arrangements made of flowers and plant material. At my first national exhibition I stood near my exhibit and listened to the comments people made. They were seeing things that I hadn’t even thought of, so I very much agree with Brian’s comment.

                            I’m more inclined to overwork a painting and with watercolour I sometimes find if I leave it for a bit it improves “all by itself”.

                            I enjoy Victoria Prischedko’s work and in the example above I know I would have spoiled the mood by adding more people in the foreground instead of leaving an area of rest.

                            In all these things we are more than conquerors.

                            #756148

                            For me, the painting is approaching finished when I switch from my 2 ‘go to’ brushes, a 1″ flat and a 1/2″ flat. This is when I am into finishing details.

                            It is only on a basis of knowledge that we can become free to compose naturally. -- Bernard Dunstan
                            blog.jlk.net

                            #756152
                            virgil carter
                            Default

                                Are details needed to make a finished painting?

                                Sling paint,
                                Virgil

                                Sling paint,
                                Virgil Carter
                                http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                #756142

                                Virgil, I think you missed my point. There wasn’t a question of being judgemental.

                                What I was feebly trying to say that it is the Artist who decides if his work is finished or not. I can only view what he’s posted or exhibited. At that point, the decision as to it’s work state is moot. So, in my opinion, all the paintings you posted are finished. The Artist signed off on them and they are now forever in the ethernet as Paintings. It doesn’t matter whether or not I think these paintings are finished. Those Artists considered them finished.

                                I did say that if I realize I cannot add one more thing to improve my work, then it must be finished. It might be filled with lumps and bumps, but in my process, I’ll not attempt to fix them.

                                What I’m trying to explain is that it is really important for each individual to understand that point where nothing more can be done to improve a work, and at that point declare it finished.

                                I don’t know if this is interesting or not… I posted a painting in the Gallery many years ago of a still life. The fruit included a very odd looking pear along with a banana and an apple. In the comments of that thread, I was constantly explaining that one of the pieces of fruit was a pear. I loved its odd shape, but my Viewers never really understood it. Nick Simmons (RIP) told me that when I have to explain the elements in my work, the painting has failed.

                                In this case, I considered the painting finished. And it was. It just didn’t pass muster with my Viewers. I never conveyed my intent.

                                Char --

                                CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                                #756153
                                virgil carter
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                                    Char, I fully agree with the late, great Nick Simmons that if a painter is compelled to verbally explain her/his work it’s likely not a successful, finished painting.

                                    I think we are in agreement that painters and viewers of a painter’s work may have different opinions of whether or not a given work is successfully “finished”.

                                    But that’s just due to normal differences in individual human perception, plus perhaps some differences in knowledge of painting and fine art, IMO.

                                    And that’s interesting, but not really the question I’m trying to ask and discuss.

                                    What I’m interested in are the responses by painters in this Forum as to when and why THEY think their work is finished or not…and/or why THEY think work they view is finished or not.

                                    IOW, in your opinion when is a painting finished? What does it take to constitute a finished painting?

                                    Simply encouraging discussion on the subject of “finished paintings”…it’s so challenging to get folks to express ideas or opinions at times…come on and share what you really think…

                                    Sling paint,
                                    Virgil

                                    Sling paint,
                                    Virgil Carter
                                    http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                    #756162
                                    madametj
                                    Default

                                        The painting is done when the artist says it is. End of story.

                                        I might paint a face and call it finished when another artist paints the same exact face in the same exact way and says it’s not finished until line work is added with a black felt-tip pen.

                                        To each his own style, to each his own aesthetic, to each his own end result.

                                        Tyler Alexy

                                        Join me on my experimental art adventures!
                                        Instagram |YouTube

                                        #756154
                                        virgil carter
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                                            “…The painting is done when the artist says it is. End of story…”

                                            Yep! That’s my take.

                                            Al Vesselli:

                                            Mr. Vesselli shows us everthing about this subject. Nothing is left to the viewer’s imagination; every M&M is clearly shown and detailed, down to the embossing. No viewer imagination is required. The only thing a viewer has to ponder is Mr. Vesselli’s fine technique for photo representational paintings.

                                            Janize Yntema:

                                            Ms. Yntema’s painting, on the other hand, compels the viewer to become involved and use their own, individual experience and perceptions to interact with her painting. Almost nothing is clearly apparent, there are no details…everything is left to the viewer to complete in the viewer’s mind.

                                            Two very different approaches for making paintings. Two very different ways to tell a story in paint…two different intents by two different paintings.

                                            Are they both finished and complete? Are they over-done or under-done? Do you find one more or less appealing than the other?

                                            Sling paint,
                                            Virgil

                                            Sling paint,
                                            Virgil Carter
                                            http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                            #756147
                                            downriver
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                                                For myself, I wish I knew when a painting is finished, and would stop. I am guilty of taking a great, fresh, expressive watercolor to an overpainted, dull piece to many times.

                                                I don’t have a good barometer, allowing me to see the piece, see the art; instead I fall in to watching the paint move out of my brush. I paint it to death.

                                                I think the paintings in this thread are finished, most look as if adding more would start to detract. That’s a talent or developed skill to see the moment to quit painting, the moment more will detract.

                                                I think many who post and ask “is my painting done,” are really looking for suggestions to correct problems in composition, color, mud, etc., hoping to make it look more finished, more complete.

                                                For myself, it’s difficult to post and say “when was my painting finished? When should I have put the brush down?”

                                                #756143

                                                Virgil, but I have discussed what I consider to be “finished” in my own process. Again… if I cannot add anything else of value, then the painting is done. My personal style is continuously evolving. But I would consider it to be controlled with very loose and washy passages. If I have been able to “render” my vision and supported that with appropriate elements, then it’s finished.

                                                What I was trying to illustrate in my previous example is that sometimes finished is not finished… it’s overworked; it’s over thought; it’s finished but unsuccessful.

                                                You are once again extolling the virtues of loose vs. controlled paintings which are not relevant to the discussion. And, again, I cannot tell the Artist that his/her work is finished or not. That Artist signed the painting and clearly considers it finished. I can admire the work. I can prefer one style over another. But I cannot claim it is finished or not.

                                                Char --

                                                CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

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