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  • #454780
    hp2
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        Any thoughts on when to use grey, and when to use the complement, when desaturating a color.

        ...not what is, but what ought to be (assuming you first know what is).

        #606868
        Richard P
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            One of those questions where every artist seems to have a preferred way of doing it.

            Either way works, just see what you prefer. :)

            #606864
            Pinguino
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                Whatever works for you. I keep a tube of middle-gray handy.

                May depend on the color. For example, Phthalo Blue (green shade) has a distinctive greenish undertone, which becomes more prominent when “grayed.” In this case, I desaturate it by using W&N’s Transparent Red Ochre, which seems to desaturate the undertone faster than the main color; that’s the desired effect.

                Desaturating one highly-chromatic color with another highly-chromatic opposite is difficult. If desaturating with an earth tone (recommended) then it’s already like a compromise between color and gray.

                #606865
                Ellis Ammons
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                    Adding grey creates too big of a pile of paint. Especially if the color your trying to neutralize has a high tinting strength. I just bump stuff around with the compliment. Add a touch of white to get the value back on track.

                    Check out my work in the acrylics Hall of Fame Camellia WIP
                    oil and acrylic paintings..

                    #606862
                    davidbriggs
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                        Adding grey creates too big of a pile of paint. Especially if the color your trying to neutralize has a high tinting strength.

                        Then add the strong colourant to the grey instead of the grey to a heap of strong colourant.

                        Colour Online (hundreds of links on colour): https://sites.google.com/site/djcbriggs/colour-online
                        The Dimensions of Colour: www.huevaluechroma.com
                        Colour Society of Australia: www.coloursociety.org.au

                        #606869
                        Richard P
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                            Something else to consider. Using earth colours (as pinguino suggested), or a grey mixed from titanium white and a black (carbon black / Iron oxide black) can be a lot cheaper than using a cadmium colour to desaturate blues/purples.

                            #606861
                            budigart
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                                Williamsburg makes a great paint that is a neutral when mixed with cremnitz white. The paint is named Italian Black Roman Earth. I mix a string of four or five values every day, and use it to desaturate colors.

                                #606866
                                Ellis Ammons
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                                    Then add the strong colourant to the grey instead of the grey to a heap of strong colourant.

                                    Right,. and sometimes you have to do that. Like when you mix a highlight with to strong of a color. It would destroy your value to add the compliment.

                                    So when that happens I’ve found that you don’t want to start your color pile over with completely fresh paint. You’ll want to add little bits of your paint pile to the grey. If you start completely over the color relativity will be off from the surrounding colors.

                                    And probably the biggest thing is to forget everything you have learned and just go for it. Paint by instinct and the painting will far surpass anything you could do following some sort of rule book or guidelines.

                                    Check out my work in the acrylics Hall of Fame Camellia WIP
                                    oil and acrylic paintings..

                                    #606863
                                    Humbaba
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                                        Learning just by trial and error is not the best approach in oil painting, do not reinvent the wheel, do some practical color theory study, in addition to exercises mixing actual oil paint.

                                        I have close a tube a Chrome Green that I mix into the colors that need to reduce its intensity, it acts like my soft white.

                                        #606860
                                        llawrence
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                                            Williamsburg makes a great paint that is a neutral when mixed with cremnitz white. The paint is named Italian Black Roman Earth. I mix a string of four or five values every day, and use it to desaturate colors.

                                            How is the tinting strength on the BRE? Nice and low?

                                            #606859
                                            Delofasht
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                                                hp2 use the least expensive and most direct manner possible. For me, that means reaching for Prussian mixed with gray to bring down an expensive orange red (that I still want to read as orange red). For bringing down Prussian though, I reach for PR101 opaque plus some gray. Yellows tend to be best neutralized by gray plus a touch of magenta (unless you are seeking a green leaning desaturated yellow). Purple or Violet is generally best reined in with grays as yellows are weaker tinters usually.

                                                Others may have different experiences, and there is a lot of variation in tinting strengths of different pigments. A lot of it comes with experience, and too little of it can really be written down or understood by merely words.

                                                - Delo Delofasht
                                                #606867
                                                Docpro
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                                                    PR101 (oxidizer and siccative) does indeed warm up prussian deadness for me).

                                                    PR101 (& PR102, iirc): Burnt Sienna, Indian Red, Venetian Rd, ‘Mars this-and-that’, Red Oxide, and so many earth reds do help … get the blue out and restore warmth to the darks.

                                                    Gamblin Chromatic Black is simply a rough mixture of process PV19 and Phthalo Green (yellow shade).

                                                    Such transparent Chromatic gray is forgiving and mixes well with umbers and PR101
                                                    ==> pleasant silky grays blacks that dry quickly. The harsh phthalo is tamed by PV19.

                                                    Grays, btw, work best for me as warm-reddish (vs. cool-bluish) … since natural light is so cool and bluish.

                                                    Underpaintings oft rely on warm gray values and whites … where color takes a back seat to value gradations, iirc.

                                                    Utmost blessings!
                                                    Philip

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