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Old 01-14-2018, 05:14 AM
Zenica Zenica is offline
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X-post from Watercolour

Hi guys,

I just recently purchased some additional dry artist pigments to add to my collection from an artist's estate. They don't have any labels as they are around 60 or so years old. Can you help me identify the following red pigment?

It is a very vivid bright red magenta (somewhat pinky - not very blue). It looks a lot like a quinacridone or PV19 from Daniel Smith but that seems hard to believe as per the cost... (there's about a kilo of it which would be about $500 worth of this pigment powder alone today!)

It is non staining and non granulating. Very transparent too. I haven't done a lightfastness test yet but it would probably be quite lightfast given it was not stored particularly well for many years and the pigment powder is still as vivid as ever.

It's the colour on the far right of this picture - next to it is hookers green and prussian green as a reference. I've tried to colour correct it as much as I can but I don't have a good digital photo enhancing program.

Name:  2018-01-13 19.30.10.jpg
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Thanks for your help!

Laura
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:14 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is online now
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

I think you mean "the far left", rather than "far right", and (in terms of oil paint), it appears to me to be a Quinacridone Red (PR209). It's too much of a Yellow bias to be the Magenta PV19 that you believe it to be.. PV19 would be much "bluer" (making it Magenta) than that which appears here.
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Last edited by WFMartin : 01-14-2018 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:21 PM
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sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

I don't know what it is, but I am not sure if quinacridone pigments were very available 60 years ago, that is about when they were first developed.
Napthol reds came along in about the same era.
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Last edited by sidbledsoe : 01-14-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:19 AM
Zenica Zenica is offline
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFMartin
I think you mean "the far left", rather than "far right",

Oops! You're right. Haha!
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:24 AM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbledsoe
I don't know what it is, but I am not sure if quinacridone pigments were very available 60 years ago, that is about when they were first developed.
Napthol reds came along in about the same era.

Quinacridones were first made in 1958, but they started to become popular in the 1960s.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:45 AM
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrill
Quinacridones were first made in 1958, but they started to become popular in the 1960s.
Yes, and 1958 is 60 years ago, and the poster is guessing that these dry pigments could be about 60 years old. So it is a rough estimate of whether or not this dry quinacridone pigment was even commercially available, pigments are not commercially available as soon as they are developed in the lab, and he has a whole kilo of this stuff! that is a lot of pigment.
So there is sufficient reason to doubt or at the very least, question whether this is a quinacridone, I believe the chances are low that it is quinacridone, primarily due to the rough time frame we are faced with here, but also due to the amount and the cost involved.
Quote:
dry artist pigments....around 60 or so years old.
It looks much like a watercolor paint that I used in the mid 1960s, and I do not remember seeing any quinacridone paints back then, much less raw pigment. PR83 alizarin crimson was by far and away the go to magneta color of choice back then that everyone used, it was one of the most popular colors.
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Last edited by sidbledsoe : 01-15-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:49 PM
Zenica Zenica is offline
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbledsoe
Yes, and 1958 is 60 years ago, and the poster is guessing that these dry pigments could be about 60 years old. So it is a rough estimate of whether or not this dry quinacridone pigment was even commercially available, pigments are not commercially available as soon as they are developed in the lab, and he has a whole kilo of this stuff! that is a lot of pigment.
So there is sufficient reason to doubt or at the very least, question whether this is a quinacridone, I believe the chances are low that it is quinacridone, primarily due to the rough time frame we are faced with here, but also due to the amount and the cost involved.

It looks much like a watercolor paint that I used in the mid 1960s, and I do not remember seeing any quinacridone paints back then, much less raw pigment. PR83 alizarin crimson was by far and away the go to magneta color of choice back then that everyone used, it was one of the most popular colors.

Thanks for your input. Yes I believe my pigments are around 50 or 60 years old. I do know the seller acquired them from another artist 20 years ago so they are at least that old. However it is important to note that the original artist was probably quite wealthy as he or she purchased vast quantities of pigments as well as many other expensive art supplies and had them imported into New Zealand (which is very expensive on its own) so cost was probably not an issue.

I am about to get them analysed at a lab near me for more certainty as to the specifics of the pigments in question. I find it hard to believe they would be Alizarin Crimson though as I have had the oldest version (PR83) and it is has a much warmer orange/red bias whereas these have more of a cool blue/pink bias. I know my photo isn't very accurate in that regard but my computer screen and yours will not show what our eyes can see! I can't seem to adjust it closer I'm afraid - but that is why I added hookers green (Holbein) as an example because many of you might know what it looks like in person and could then infer the true colour of my red pigment.

Laura
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:25 PM
Zenica Zenica is offline
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Re: X-post from Watercolour

So it would appear that the seller acquired the pigments 21 years ago. However this information doesn't exactly date them completely as the original artist would likely have had them for some time before that.
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