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  • #986814
    green I
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        Converting Digital color to actual paints?

        ——————————————————————————–

        Hi Guys,my name is Robert and this is my first posting in this category (COLOR MIXING)!
        I’m trying to convert DIGITAL color to mixing actual acrylic paints or oil paints,I’ve tried using the CMYK color swatch slide in ILLUSTRATOR as a recipe but does not seem to work well!!
        Is it impossible ?,or is there some right way to do so??
        Thanks in advance!!
        Robert

        #1094707
        GraphiteGrunt
        Default

            Good question. that can be a tough one. Not sure of any tried and true method.
            the cmyk equivilents should work, but your only going to get rough approximations unless you have some strict measuring methods.
            worth looking into….

            Cheap Joe's Art Stuff Website

            I dream of painting and then I paint my dream.
            Vincent Van Gogh

            #1094705
            Te_Wheke
            Default

                I was lazy and pasted my answer in the digi thread here.:D

                It can be done in theory, and imo you can get pretty close when you break a colour down in photoshop for instance. If you are doing your mock up in PS, you can colour pick a simplified colour palette to mix for your painting.

                Remember the colour you see on your monitor may not be the exact same colour you mix using cymk. The luminosity that comes from a glowing or backlit screen will be hard to duplicate in paint, oils seem to be good at producing light effects with glazing, also airbrush techniques help with light in acrylics.

                You should definitely research as much as you can about colour theory and the colour wheel so you can better handle colour shift, and using opaque rather than transparent colour will help minimize colour shift.

                One thing I don’t know if you have calibrated your monitor yet, and are using colour profiles? This will help you see and mix colours closer to what it should look like on your monitor or in prints. An un-calibrated monitor will show you colours that may be wildly different to the actual hue you are after, and vice versa, this should be a first step in colour matching digital/analogue.

                Here is a link to a page that shows formulas for cmyk, there are also similar pages with RGB formulas.

                http://www.december.com/html/spec/colorcmyk.html

                This is another link with yet another colour mixing object. A little heady but interesting, thanks J4J Paul for the links.

                http://www.colorcube.com/articles/mixing/mixer.htm

                Good Luck

                Regards, T.S. HA'O
                Iwata HP-A HL, HPSBS E, HPBC, HPBE, HPBC2, Paasche VL's, T&C V2000, Assorted Hairy Sticks. Golden, AquaFlow, Liquitex, W&N, Matisse, Comart, ETAC, PPG, HOK, Natural pigments suspended in various mediums etc...
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                #1094708
                peachmaker
                Default

                    Converting Digital color to actual paints?

                    ——————————————————————————–

                    Hi Guys,my name is Robert and this is my first posting in this category (COLOR MIXING)!
                    I’m trying to convert DIGITAL color to mixing actual acrylic paints or oil paints,I’ve tried using the CMYK color swatch slide in ILLUSTRATOR as a recipe but does not seem to work well!!
                    Is it impossible ?,or is there some right way to do so??
                    Thanks in advance!!
                    Robert

                    Hello Green I

                    I am coming in late on your question as I have been sweating on this question but in a reverse sense.
                    May I suggest that you have a look at ‘Colour Theory and Mixing’ under the heading of “Gainsborough Colour Cards”.
                    The able comments by members might help you to clarify your requirements and lead to some answers.

                    Good luck with your search

                    Peachmaker

                    #1094709
                    peachmaker
                    Default

                        Hello Green I

                        I am coming in late on your question as I have been sweating on this question but in a reverse sense.
                        May I suggest that you have a look at ‘Colour Theory and Mixing’ under the heading of “Gainsborough Colour Cards”.
                        The able comments by members might help you to clarify your requirements and lead to some answers.

                        Good luck with your search

                        Peachmaker

                        I am replying to myself as this seems a good place to leave information on this subject.

                        I have completed a transfer from half of a page of one colour card “Gainsborough Colour Cards” to one page of Excel.
                        This has been done using PSP X2 as the medium to take a RGB reading from the scanned portion of one card and that reading entered in Excel.
                        During the process I have made an individual swatch card in PSP using these RGB readings but, for the moment, only as a by-product.

                        The Excel page is easily searchable but to find an exact match I will need a greater amount of data and even a method of approximating each and every RGB figure so that I am able to duplicate any colour found on an oil painting using a simple mixing method and a known make of oil paints!

                        I am happy with the results so far and I will add to this post when any further progress has been made.

                        Peachmaker

                        #1094702
                        rafi
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                            I once wrote a small application to do this. You could define a palette of colors in RGB and then give a RGB color to mix and it would find you the mix. After I’d finished it (which I did for fun) I realized it wasn’t really very useful.

                            Anyway I can’t find it right now on this computer. I can look for it later when I get home.

                            Rafi
                            GALLERY: rafistern.com[/URL]
                            B L O G : Rafi's Studio[/URL]

                            #1094730
                            infiniumetal
                            Default

                                My First Post, but long time troll. :wave:

                                I hate giving advice that actually costs something to whomever is looking for a solution. But, I have looked long and hard for an answer to this question (mixing palette colors from the screen). Other than the usual read-up-on-color theory, mix, mix, mix, and look deeply into the colors in their natural setting (to find yellows in highlights, and alizarin crimson in shadows under birds on beaches) I have found one solution which I used for a short time as an aid to my self study. It really helped me make sense of things as I had no time or money to be in a course and learn from an instructor. My teacher was the Internet and Wet Canvas. :thumbsup: Once I felt I could duplicate colors fairly easily I was happier with freely interpreting my colors from true life or photographs I took on location. I was then able to instill emotion into my pictures. The theory part will really help you bring your viewer into your scene and retain them there. It is not only the color. But, here is a great tool. Please don’t rely on this as it will become a crutch. Be creative and have fun.

                                Nevertheless, here is the solution. It will cost you money after 30 days if you want to retain it, but otherwise it will be FREE. Make sure you have the time to devote to this tool if you want to learn how to mix in 30 days without paying for it. So here goes.

                                The way I used it was to read up on color theory, practice mixing, posturize my photos in Gimp (aka the Free Photoshop) to gain a better understanding of where my basic colors lay, and finally I desaturated my posturized images to better train my eye to mix values. I also practiced only painting in values and then glazing/scumbling to gain a foothold into composition, depth, and deeper richer colors (Like deep ocean waters or a folding wave). [(Note: You can change the BW values as long as you keep their relationships intact. So if you posturized (setting of ~10 or 11 will give you the +9 values)], When you desaturate the image you will have ~6-7 grayscale values (I prefer to desaturate as you can still tweak the colors to give it the colors needed for the underpaintings of the French and Italian masters.) You will then be able to alter the +2 value to +4 for a lighter picture, but the next values on your photo which were +3 must also be shifted to +5 to have the same overall picture in the end only altered to help your personal mixing style.)

                                But, to actually answer your question:
                                You can interpret screen colors with the software called Artworks. It has a module which allows you to see the Hue, Value, Intensity, R, G, B, X, Y, But more importantly it has the pigment numbers according to industry standards, AND a method for mixing the colors from the names of those industry standards which you will know as the names on your tubes of color. It will tell you which color to mix into which and what value to bring that up to in order to obtain the color you see on the screen. So Pthalo Blue is called PB with the pigment type as 15. It will then simply tell you PB15. If what your pointer is on is a mix of colors then it will tell you what’s needed to mix it. for the simple Pthalo Blue example. It will display; Hue(Blue, Pthalo Blue, PB15) Values Scale(8) Intensity(MEDIUM). Another more complex Example: Hue(Orange 8) Value(3+)(31%) Intensity(Mid2)(32%) Pigment Reference: (PO43) In Order To Mix This Hue: (Magenta into Yellow until 08 or Simply use Cadmium Orange) Value Scale(5+) Intensity(Medium) R(117) G(72) B(33). As you can see it will tell you how to mix your colors from a simplified palette. But, also tell you when you can simply use a premixed tube like Cad Orange at a value of +5. There are a bunch more tools like this within the program. It lets you separate all the values independently and show them as layers. So you can see everywhere that there is a +5 value on a grayscale underpainting. You can also isolate by hue (only 6-7 main hues), and you can see how contrast fits in the picture (dark background vs. light background. When you purchase their software they will send you a color wheel (I think it is now 32 colors with values on it) that matches things by complementary hue, and a grayscale value chart to help you match what they tell you (like +8) to what you are actually mixing on your palette.

                                It is distributed by the company called artellmedia (found at http://www.artellmedia.com ).
                                The download link for the 30 free trial is here: http://www.artellmedia.com/download.html ).
                                Price for USD is (~$50) (http://www.artellmedia.com/order_artworksbasic_usd.html) (Note: they have the currency for other countries also on their site.

                                Small blurb online of how this part of the program works, although I explained in much more depth then this blurb. I recomend just rying it for free for a month and see if you improved enough to wobble on your own for while. If not then I recommend more practice before actually purchasing. If you have color deficiencies or an absolute horrendous time mixing your colors then by all means purchase this product.
                                Blurb on Interpreting Screen Colors
                                http://www.artellmedia.com/artworksb1.html

                                Golden Opens are my new best friend! :heart:

                                #1094703
                                Rusalka
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                                    I don’t understand this question or any of the answers at all! What on earth is this about? Do people mix acrylic and oil colors according to a particular formula to match a photo, or am I misunderstanding this completely? I feel so stupid…

                                    #1094710
                                    peachmaker
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                                        Hello infiniumetal,

                                        Just back from a visit to Greece otherwise I would have thanked you for your very able ‘blurb’!

                                        This cuts across and adds to what I had started to do and, for one, I shall be downloading the software you have recommended to see whether it will fit into what I am trying to do.

                                        I am not quoting your message in this reply as I hope to post questions as I progress. Progress may be slow as work has built up during my absence.

                                        Thanks again for your exposure.

                                        Peachmaker

                                        #1094711
                                        peachmaker
                                        Default

                                            I don’t understand this question or any of the answers at all! What on earth is this about? Do people mix acrylic and oil colors according to a particular formula to match a photo, or am I misunderstanding this completely? I feel so stupid…

                                            Good morning Rusalka from a lovely Spring morning just outside Paris near Versailles where the only clouds in the sky have been created by high flying ‘planes.

                                            I must admit that reading through this thread one could get lost and the meanings not clear unless one knows the subject.

                                            I do not feel that I could explain it myself so I am going to leave it to “infiniumetal” who seems to have dealt with this subject in great depth and has a ‘hands-on’ approach which is most rfefreshing.

                                            Have a pleasant day

                                            Peachmaker

                                            #1094712
                                            peachmaker
                                            Default

                                                Hello again infiniumetal,

                                                I have ordered the software and expect delivery in a week or so depending on delivery method.

                                                I have read their articles and tried out the onscreen download and I can see, with the help of your explanations, that this could suit my purposes.

                                                Thanks again

                                                Peachmaker

                                                #1094700
                                                Oldthumbs
                                                Default

                                                    I don’t understand this question or any of the answers at all! What on earth is this about? Do people mix acrylic and oil colors according to a particular formula to match a photo, or am I misunderstanding this completely? I feel so stupid…

                                                    No, you’re not misunderstanding it. However, rather than mixing colors to match a photograph, the original question was how to mix colors to match the subject reference material (photograph or otherwise) as it appears on a monitor, and whether there was something available, or some rule of thumb, that would allow this to be done in an automated fashion. At least that’s my take on it.

                                                    Ray

                                                    “The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it.”- W. M. Lewis
                                                    “It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power.”- Alan Cohen
                                                    #1094713
                                                    peachmaker
                                                    Default

                                                        Hello me!

                                                        In the, so far vain, hope that someone will activate this thread I am adding a further note on what is happening concerning the software from Artellmedia.

                                                        In the help pages of the software it was made clear that the basic and supplementary colour palettes were ‘suggestions only’ and that each person would choose as he/she wished.
                                                        This lead me to think that having only one manufacturer of paints (acrylic for me for various reasons) could be a good and practical way of buying supplies.

                                                        Being from the UK but living ‘overseas’ Winsor & Newton immediately came to mind as I had used their oil paints and based some of my studies on their literature and technical knowhow.
                                                        I had difficulty in finding an UK web site that sold online to offshore countries but with the help of W&N I found one and I should receive the paints in a few days.

                                                        To make the order I had to select the paints according to pigment references which led to some difficulties.

                                                        More of this anon after I have received the paints and started mixing.

                                                        Peachmaker

                                                        #1094704
                                                        eagle owl
                                                        Default

                                                            I also tried Artworks and ended up buying it. It has definitely helped me with colour mixing.

                                                            It is also useful for gauging values.

                                                            I would unreservedly recommend it.

                                                            Carol

                                                            #1094714
                                                            peachmaker
                                                            Default

                                                                I also tried Artworks and ended up buying it. It has definitely helped me with colour mixing.

                                                                It is also useful for gauging values.

                                                                I would unreservedly recommend it.

                                                                Carol

                                                                I seem to have missed your entry as I had some difficulties with ‘Wet Canvas’.

                                                                I am really happy that someone else has plunged into the software which is always open on my computer as I check each and every step I make when mixing and in making swatches.

                                                                I received information that the software is in process of being upgraded but that was only a month ago and I do not know when it is expected to be on sale.

                                                                Tomorrow I shall be scanning my latest set of swatches. This is the forerunner of using the software to convert into the Artworks notational system. For example – Cadmium Yellow Medium ( which I swatched before) gives a reading of Y4[7,Xtra 3].
                                                                This notation is very helpful in keeping notes.

                                                                If the swatches are of any interest I could post them to this thread. Please let me know but you might learn more quickly by choosing your own manufacturer or using different ones for certain colours that you have the habit of working with to form your special swatches.
                                                                I use a coloured A4 paper that has a reading of :
                                                                1) O12[7, Low 1] and Y12[7, Low 1] this seems, to me, to be benefical when viewing colours but this is only a personal whim!

                                                                Thank you Carol !

                                                                Perhaps you have something more concrete with using the software than I am able to give?

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