Home › Forums › The Learning Center › Color Theory and Mixing › Old Holland Driebergen Yellow-Reddish Light?
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August 11, 2014 at 2:42 am #992151
Blick is running a special – spend $40 on OH oils, get a free 40ml tube of “Driebergen Yellow Reddish-Light.” Any idea what this color is, what the story is on it, what the pigments are?
The picture shows the tube saying “Limited Edition 2014 Not for Resale.”
I’m not a huge OH fan, I think it’s good but not incredible paint. None the less, there were several colors I wanted to pick up so I spent $45 or so and will be receiving a tube of this mystery paint.
August 11, 2014 at 4:26 am #1209638No idea. This pigment must be cheap and non-toxic. It looks like a pale yellow color. Try to burn a very small amount of this paint. If the residue ash stay yellow, then, a more likely, it is a form of Titanate yellow PY53 or equal pigment. If the residue ash become white – it is an organic, petroleum pigment.
August 11, 2014 at 4:02 pm #1209643Thanks for the tip – I’ll give that a shot if the tube doesn’t list the pigment content.
I know a lot of the time promos are done with free tubes of white. I wonder if OH decided to do something similar but throw some other pigment in to make it a “color.”
I know Gamblin does their Torrit Grey with the accumulated pigment collected in their filtration systems. Instead of throwing it out, they make paint out of it and give the paint away as promo items. Wonder if OH had a similar idea of some sort.
August 12, 2014 at 2:37 am #1209639Thanks for the tip – I’ll give that a shot if the tube doesn’t list the pigment content.
I know a lot of the time promos are done with free tubes of white. I wonder if OH decided to do something similar but throw some other pigment in to make it a “color.”
I know Gamblin does their Torrit Grey with the accumulated pigment collected in their filtration systems. Instead of throwing it out, they make paint out of it and give the paint away as promo items. Wonder if OH had a similar idea of some sort.
Probably, OH tried to test their Beta version of new yellow paint or pigment before widely release it to a market?
August 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm #1209632Hey Jetflair, did you every figure out what the mystery pigments where? The suspense is killing me! lol
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
August 19, 2014 at 8:14 pm #1209644They were good enough to put them right on the tube. PW4, PW6, PY43, and PY74. It’s a gorgeous pale reddish tan perfect for the warm parts of thunderstorm clouds and so forth.
August 19, 2014 at 8:39 pm #1209637They were good enough to put them right on the tube. PW4, PW6, PY43, and PY74. It’s a gorgeous pale reddish tan perfect for the warm parts of thunderstorm clouds and so forth.
Jet, this mix is actually what most brands use as a “Naples Yellow” hue. I wonder why they made this convenience mix a “limited edition” tube.
The best substitutes overall we have for Genuine Naples Yellow (PY 41) today are Nickel Titanate Yellow (PY 53) for the lemon shade and Chrome Titanate Yellow (PBr 24) for the deep shade.
August 20, 2014 at 4:20 am #1209640The best substitutes overall we have for Genuine Naples Yellow (PY 41) today are Nickel Titanate Yellow (PY 53) for the lemon shade and Chrome Titanate Yellow (PBr 24) for the deep shade.
PY53 and PBr24 are the best substitutions for genuine Naples Yellow in acrylic medium. In Oil paint, both pigments are non-drying, while real thing, PY41 is a very fast, perfectly drying material. The main trouble to create a paint from PY53 and PBr24 is a question: what to add there to make paint useful?
The problem with additives is that Zinc White is not useful, it makes a very pale paint, Cadmium Yellow is toxic and not a perfect drier, Hansa PY74 or PY73 are not a lightfast additive, Iron oxides PY42 and PY43 are mud, PY41 is perfect, but toxic and prohibited Lead paint, Lead-Tin yellow is also perfect but also prohibited. Therefore, in oil paint, a mixture of Cadmium red, Cadmium yellow and Zinc-Titanium white might be the best substitution for real PY41. Also, PY42+Cadmium Yellow+Zinc White+Titanium White may be a workable paint, but the mud hue of those Iron oxide additives make this substitution far not equal. Some mixtures looks like a paranoid stuff!In oil painting, I prefer to mix “Naples Yellow hue” with my own hands using Cadmium pigments.:D
If Williamsburg ask me to compose real “Naples yellow hue” for them, I will do that:
15% PY41, 1% Bess wax, 4% Dammar resin, 10% marble dust, 70% PY53 in a binder made from 10% Stand oil + 90% refined Linseed oil or made from pure refined linseed oil.August 20, 2014 at 5:15 pm #1209633Gigalot, not sure where you are getting that info, but I have Pbr24 and PY53 in dry pigments and can assure you they are actually pretty fast drying in oils.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
August 21, 2014 at 12:36 pm #1209641They used W&N “Naples Yellow” for this test, but when I checked this paint it is not PY41, it is PBr24: http://www.dickblick.com/items/00461-4523/#colorpigments
August 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm #1209634Well, that test is just on genuine naples yellow and doesn’t show Pbr24 or PY52 at all. Furthermore, Winsor and Newton has never made a Naples Yellow in cold presses linseed oil, or any other color that I am aware of. So, I think you may be misreading this information. What is that from?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
August 22, 2014 at 12:19 am #1209642Well, that test is just on genuine naples yellow and doesn’t show Pbr24 or PY52 at all.
At first I thought how you. But there was a significant difference in the test between the two almost identical pigments. Lead-Tin yellow and Naples Yellow.
Chemically, it seems to be more than strange. I tried to read more about these pigments. I found nothing can say that Lead-tin yellow and Naples yellow are very different in oil film structure. Just that Naples yellow is perfect and makes a durable film.After that, I looked at the second graphic and you can see how strangely similar to titanium their “naples yellow” is:
August 22, 2014 at 3:20 am #1209645I have both PBr24 and PY53 individually. Never having seen genuine Naples yellow, I can’t speak as to how any of these compare. But this convenience mix is redder than either of those pigments individually or mixed.
I’d like to know the story behind this color. I get why whites are used as promo items (cheap, and we all need them). I get why Torritt Grey is used as a promo item (good way to use waste pigment). But why this shade as a promo, especially when it’s not one they have as a regular part of their line?
August 23, 2014 at 2:25 pm #1209635Jetflair, I think more than anything is it is just a promotional item and they used pigments they already had available and a low cost base of white. Basically, it’s a cheap color to give away.
I would gladly take it over the useless Torrit Grey any day. That paint is useless (might as well call it Lint Trap Grey) and my tube is gritty with all kinds of clumps of undispersed pigments.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-- Carl SaganBrian Firth
August 24, 2014 at 9:52 am #1209636A couple years ago Daniel Smith had a similar free offer, similar color. I assumed it was just something they wanted to get rid of…
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