The websites for those two brands both list the pigments and have color samples. Have you checked those?

What it means is this:
WN pigment is NR9
Daniel Smith is Pigments: PR 209, PV 19, PR 202

NR9= Natural Red (NR) 9, it is the pigment used in WN Rose Madder

Daniel Smith uses:
PR209=Pigment Red 209, quinacridone red
PV19=Pigment Violate 19, quinacridone rose
PR202=Pigment Red 202, Quinacridone magenta

Forget about the common names the company’s name the pigments, it is marketing hype and tells you nothing about the pigment ingredients in the colors. The pigment codes, which are broken down, are the pigment ingredients that make up the color. It is the best way to know what pigments you have, because the company’s “should” list them on the label. When a historical pigment like Rose Madder or Manganese blue are re-worked, they should have a close color resemblance to the original color, but hopefully using more permanent pigments. These are called Hues, nova and any other name to tip you off that they are not the historical pigment, which is not light fast, discontinued or reformulated.

Thank you, Steve. Great explanation.

I should infer that the one pigment is better than the blend of three, yes?

Thomas

in this case, not really, like most organic pigment, rose madder genuine isnt lightfast, so it’ll fade overtime.

generally most people has move on to the permanent option, usually called Permanent Rose which is PV19 also know as Quinacridone Rose or Quinacridone Red.

Dont know why daniel smith uses 3 pigment to create permanent rose, all other brand just uses PV19.

so if you want a single pigment permanent option of rose madder, just go with Permanent Rose or Quinacridone Rose\Red (PV19)..

From Handprint:

[INDENT]Genuine rose madder NR9 is a fugitive, transparent, nonstaining, mid valued, moderately dull violet red pigment in tints and medium solutions, darkening to an impermanent, dull magenta red in mass tone. The pigment actually contains two unique dyes, the fugitive, fiery orange purpurin and the impermanent, bluish red alizarin. Like alizarin crimson (PR83), rose madder is widely acknowledged to be a fugitive pigment. The ASTM (1999) rates its lightfastness in watercolors as “poor” (IV), as you can see from the comparable results in my own tests (right).

The Winsor & Newton rose madder genuine, which is still manufactured using the cumbersome and time consuming traditional method of dye processing, has a fairly bright and clear color flecked with interesting bits of vegetable matter; the paint dissolves reluctantly and is relatively weak even in mass tone. The Daniel Smith paint is surprisingly dark, dull and fugitive by comparison, and does not seem to represent the color appearance of the historical pigment.

AVOID. Rose madder is still occasionally recommended by the “old master” generation of workshop artists, although it is indisputably too fugitive for professional artistic work. Readily replaced by quinacridone rose (PV19) or quinacridone magenta (PR122 or PR202), modulated if desired by a thin glaze or addition of pyrrole orange (PO73) to simulate the effect of the purpurin dye. See also the section on natural organic pigments.[/INDENT]

Similar transparency?

Thomas

same transparency.. the only differ is tinting strength, liftability and light fastness. all quinacridone pigment are lightfast, transparent, high tinting and staining.

I’m now a little over a year into watercolors and am just now really beginning to understand concepts like ‘fugitive’. (I now have to find a substitute for my alizarin crimson!)

Thomas

I know MGraham makes both Alizarin Crimson and a permanent version. I think several other companies do too.